tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-76687128608462170132024-03-05T16:32:09.119-07:00DomChurchMil"I shall lift up the cup."
~Psalm 116:13Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7668712860846217013.post-2681111743826510392015-06-30T11:27:00.001-06:002015-06-30T11:29:00.295-06:00Conversation on Married Life<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="284" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/wNzBHCRpASM?rel=0" width="504"></iframe>Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7668712860846217013.post-37429040787470130732015-05-03T16:52:00.001-06:002015-05-03T17:12:46.318-06:00What is Marriage?Given the historic Supreme Court case upon us, I thought it was a good time to post one of my Facebook debates on marriage. People love to frame the debate as an "equality" issue, but "marriage equality" is nothing but a sentimental-sounding euphemism. A<span style="background-color: #f6f7f8; font-family: inherit; line-height: 16px;">ll adults "regardless of gender or race" already do have the right to marry, in so far as they are capable of it and are seeking a MARITAL relationship. I am not eligible to get married, because I am already married to someone else. Should I claim unjust discrimination if my "religion" held it was ok to marry multiple people? The traditional conjugal view of marriage has nothing to do with unjust discrimination. We already have marriage equality. The real question is, "WHAT IS MARRIAGE?"</span><br />
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<span class="fcg"><span class="fwb" style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="color: #3d85c6;">Luke</span></span><span style="color: #9197a3;"> shared </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">Barack Obama</span></span><span style="color: #9197a3;">'s </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">photo</span></span><span style="color: #9197a3;">.</span></span></div>
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<span class="fsm fwn fcg"><span style="cursor: pointer;">October 8, 2014</span></span> · <span style="cursor: pointer;">Edited</span> ·<br />
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All should have this opportunity for growth and reflection. Marriage is a cultural norm. Marriage is bliss. I say let everyone marry. Mary can Marry Mary. Vic can marry Stan. Her and her. He and she. Church and state. American land of the free home of the brave. Our soldiers don't die for freedom for some. Long live the us of a.</div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:1.0.$right.0.0.0"><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">Luke</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:1.0.$right.0.0.0.$text1:0:$0:0"> and </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">15 others</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:1.0.$right.0.0.0.$end:0:$0:0"> like this.</span></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152675902336066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152675902336066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Ryan</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152675902336066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152675902336066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152675902336066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152675902336066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152675902336066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.$end:0:$0:0">What is the definition of marriage, Luke? (and no platitudes, please.)</span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152675902336066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152675902336066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$metadata:0"><span style="cursor: pointer;">October 8, 2014 at 2:34pm</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152675902336066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeToggle:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">Like</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152675902336066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><i class="UFICommentLikeIcon" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152675902336066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.0" style="background-image: url(https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yq/r/OMU8iFYqlZn.png); background-position: -69px -511px; background-size: auto; bottom: 2px; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; display: inline-block; height: 14.5px; margin: 0px 3px -3px 0px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; position: relative; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap; width: 13px;"></i><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152675902336066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.1" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; margin: -5px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap;">1</span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676087191066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676087191066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Luke</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676087191066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676087191066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676087191066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676087191066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676087191066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.$text0:0:$0:0">Great question. I am not the dude to ask. My definition may be different then yours. </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">Ryan</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676087191066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.$end:0:$0:0">. I say pray about it and ask what Jesus would say about love and pope Fransisco. And the franscicano prayer.</span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676087191066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676087191066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$metadata:0"><span style="cursor: pointer;">October 8, 2014 at 3:58pm</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676087191066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeToggle:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">Like</span></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676325086066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676325086066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Ryan</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676325086066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676325086066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676325086066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676325086066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676325086066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676325086066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0.$end:0:$0:0">Yes, your definition obviously appears to be different than mine. That's why I asked you what exactly your definition is. I wasn't asking about Jesus, Pope Francis, or St</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676325086066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676325086066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676325086066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$0:0">. Francis, but why would we need to "ask them"? They've already given their definition (see Matt. 19 for example) clearly and emphatically (especially Pope Francis), and I agree with them. So the question remains, how do YOU define marriage?</span></span></span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676325086066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676531136066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676531136066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Alan</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676531136066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676531136066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676531136066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676531136066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676531136066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.$end:0:$0:0">marriage takes place in many non-christian cultures - why the assumption that it's something inherently Christian? bizarre</span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676531136066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676531136066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$metadata:0"><span style="cursor: pointer;">October 8, 2014 at 7:49pm</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676531136066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeToggle:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">Like</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676531136066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><i class="UFICommentLikeIcon" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676531136066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.0" style="background-image: url(https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yq/r/OMU8iFYqlZn.png); background-position: -69px -511px; background-size: auto; bottom: 2px; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; display: inline-block; height: 14.5px; margin: 0px 3px -3px 0px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; position: relative; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap; width: 13px;"></i><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676531136066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.1" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; margin: -5px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap;">1</span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676533626066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676533626066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Alan</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676533626066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676533626066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676533626066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676533626066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676533626066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.$end:0:$0:0">why would i care what Matthew 19 states unless i took the bible literally? and if i took the bible literally then i would have to accept and condone all the *#$% that's mentioned in the old testament? ever read that? genocide? slavery? stoning of women? pretty barbaric *#$% - no thanks</span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676533626066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676533626066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$metadata:0"><span style="cursor: pointer;">October 8, 2014 at 7:50pm</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676533626066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeToggle:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">Like</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676533626066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><i class="UFICommentLikeIcon" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676533626066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.0" style="background-image: url(https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yq/r/OMU8iFYqlZn.png); background-position: -69px -511px; background-size: auto; bottom: 2px; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; display: inline-block; height: 14.5px; margin: 0px 3px -3px 0px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; position: relative; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap; width: 13px;"></i><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676533626066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.1" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; margin: -5px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap;">1</span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676554496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676554496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Gloria</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676554496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676554496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676554496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676554496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676554496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.$end:0:$0:0">I believe that marriage is the commitment two people promise to each other based in pure love. I truly believe in marriage . My problem is where is that person lol</span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676554496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676554496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$metadata:0"><span style="cursor: pointer;">October 8, 2014 at 8:02pm</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676554496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeToggle:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">Like</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676554496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><i class="UFICommentLikeIcon" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676554496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.0" style="background-image: url(https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yq/r/OMU8iFYqlZn.png); background-position: -69px -511px; background-size: auto; bottom: 2px; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; display: inline-block; height: 14.5px; margin: 0px 3px -3px 0px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; position: relative; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap; width: 13px;"></i><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676554496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.1" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; margin: -5px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap;">1</span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676600816066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676600816066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Ryan</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676600816066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676600816066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676600816066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676600816066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676600816066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.$end:0:$0:0">Alan, I didn't bring up Jesus and had no intention of doing so, Luke did. I never said marriage is "something inherently Christian". The Catholic definition (again, brought up by Luke, not me) is indisputable. I'm just asking for Luke's definition of marriage for secular society. Luke, are you agreeing with Gloria's stated definition?</span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676600816066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676600816066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$metadata:0"><abbr class="livetimestamp" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676600816066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$metadata:0.$timestamp-message.0" data-shorten="true" data-utime="1412821585" style="border-bottom-style: none; color: #9197a3; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;" title="Wednesday, October 8, 2014 at 8:26pm">October 8, 2014 at 8:26pm</abbr><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676600816066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$metadata:0.3:0" style="color: #9197a3; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;"> · </span><span style="cursor: pointer;">Edited</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676600816066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeToggle:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">Like</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676600816066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><i class="UFICommentLikeIcon" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676600816066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.0" style="background-image: url(https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yq/r/OMU8iFYqlZn.png); background-position: -69px -511px; background-size: auto; bottom: 2px; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; display: inline-block; height: 14.5px; margin: 0px 3px -3px 0px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; position: relative; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap; width: 13px;"></i><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676600816066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.1" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; margin: -5px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap;">1</span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676693716066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676693716066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Ryan</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676693716066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676693716066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676693716066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676693716066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676693716066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676693716066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0.$end:0:$0:0">Gloria, I admire your willingness to offer something more than nonsensical platitudes (see "loveislove" or peruse our friend Luke's wall for many more examples). Two questions about your definition: 1) Does that mean the state should recognize my</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676693716066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676693716066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676693716066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$0:0"> relationship with my grandmother as a "marriage"? (After all, the commitment we've promised to each other is based on pure love.) 2) On what grounds do you limit your definition to 2 people?</span></span></span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676693716066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676693716066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$metadata:0"><span style="cursor: pointer;">October 8, 2014 at 9:14pm</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676693716066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeToggle:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">Like</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676693716066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><i class="UFICommentLikeIcon" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676693716066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.0" style="background-image: url(https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yq/r/OMU8iFYqlZn.png); background-position: -69px -511px; background-size: auto; bottom: 2px; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; display: inline-block; height: 14.5px; margin: 0px 3px -3px 0px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; position: relative; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap; width: 13px;"></i><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676693716066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.1" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; margin: -5px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap;">1</span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676704901066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676704901066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Alan</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676704901066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676704901066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676704901066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676704901066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676704901066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.$end:0:$0:0">actually, i meant to apologize for my comments - not productive I'm sorry -</span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676704901066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676704901066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$metadata:0"><span style="cursor: pointer;">October 8, 2014 at 9:22pm</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676704901066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeToggle:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">Unlike</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676704901066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><i class="UFICommentLikeIcon" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676704901066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.0" style="background-image: url(https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yq/r/OMU8iFYqlZn.png); background-position: -69px -511px; background-size: auto; bottom: 2px; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; display: inline-block; height: 14.5px; margin: 0px 3px -3px 0px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; position: relative; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap; width: 13px;"></i><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676704901066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.1" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; margin: -5px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap;">2</span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676705931066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676705931066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Alan</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676705931066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676705931066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676705931066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676705931066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676705931066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.$end:0:$0:0">is just wish all people could get along - naively <span class="emoticon emoticon_smile" style="background-image: url(https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yS/r/ckxre_asY0y.png); background-position: 0px -8033px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; background-size: auto; display: inline-block; height: 16px; vertical-align: top; width: 16px;" title=":)"></span> - and feel that marriage between two people who love each other should be ok - regardless of religion, sexual orientation, whatever</span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676705931066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676705931066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$metadata:0"><span style="cursor: pointer;">October 8, 2014 at 9:22pm</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676705931066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeToggle:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">Like</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676705931066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><i class="UFICommentLikeIcon" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676705931066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.0" style="background-image: url(https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yq/r/OMU8iFYqlZn.png); background-position: -69px -511px; background-size: auto; bottom: 2px; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; display: inline-block; height: 14.5px; margin: 0px 3px -3px 0px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; position: relative; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap; width: 13px;"></i><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676705931066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.1" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; margin: -5px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap;">1</span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676724391066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676724391066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Ryan</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676724391066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676724391066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676724391066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676724391066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676724391066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.$end:0:$0:0">Alan, I'm just trying to bring the conversation back to an essential question: What is marriage? I think "two people who love each other" is lacking and I suspect you do too. Otherwise, I'm eligible to "marry" my son, my sister, my pastor, my grandmother, my best friend, or my 14-year-old goddaughter? All of these relationships fit your definition.</span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676724391066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676737401066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676737401066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Alan</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676737401066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676737401066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676737401066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676737401066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676737401066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.$end:0:$0:0">good points - i guess id say: two consenting adults - not biologically related (as in, relatives - not as in, australopithicus)</span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676737401066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676737401066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$metadata:0"><span style="cursor: pointer;">October 8, 2014 at 9:42pm</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676737401066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeToggle:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">Like</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676737401066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><i class="UFICommentLikeIcon" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676737401066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.0" style="background-image: url(https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yq/r/OMU8iFYqlZn.png); background-position: -69px -511px; background-size: auto; bottom: 2px; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; display: inline-block; height: 14.5px; margin: 0px 3px -3px 0px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; position: relative; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap; width: 13px;"></i><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676737401066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.1" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; margin: -5px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap;">1</span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676743086066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676743086066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Ryan</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676743086066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676743086066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676743086066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676743086066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676743086066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.$end:0:$0:0">On what grounds do you exclude relatives? In other words, how is this discrimination justified? Also, on what ground do you limit it to 2? Why not polygamy or polyamory? ...<a href="http://domesticchurchmilitant.blogspot.com/2015/05/what-is-marriage.html">Read more</a></span></span></span></span><br />
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676750406066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0" style="color: #141823;"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676750406066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold;"><br /></span></span>
<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676750406066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0" style="color: #141823;"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676750406066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold;">Alan</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676750406066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1" style="color: #141823;"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676750406066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676750406066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676750406066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676750406066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.$end:0:$0:0">two more great questions - But I feel that lurking beneath these two questions is a deeper question- What is the basis for moral/ethical behavior? Or am I off base here? And these questions I think would require a pretty long discussion </span></span></span></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676750406066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$metadata:0"><span style="cursor: pointer;">October 8, 2014 at 9:50pm</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676750406066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeToggle:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">Like</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676750406066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><i class="UFICommentLikeIcon" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676750406066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.0" style="background-image: url(https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yq/r/OMU8iFYqlZn.png); background-position: -69px -511px; background-size: auto; bottom: 2px; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; display: inline-block; height: 14.5px; margin: 0px 3px -3px 0px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; position: relative; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap; width: 13px;"></i><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676750406066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.1" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; margin: -5px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap;">1</span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676781796066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676781796066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Ryan</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676781796066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676781796066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676781796066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676781796066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676781796066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676781796066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0.$end:0:$0:0">Hmm. That is an excellent question. While definitely not unrelated to the marriage question, I think it's possible to set morality/ethics aside while discussing "What is marriage?" People can disagree on many moral issues related to marriage but st</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676781796066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676781796066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676781796066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$0:0">ill come to see the logical reasons for the state's interest in marriage. So that's another question, why does the state issue marriage licenses in the first place? There are many, many types of relationships in society, including many "loving" ones? Why is marriage one of the only(?) relationships the state regulates (along with parent/child)? Why not issue friendship licenses? ...And I'd still like to know why you'd exclude relatives from "marrying"?</span></span></span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152676781796066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677378721066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677378721066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Luke</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677378721066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677378721066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677378721066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677378721066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677378721066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677378721066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0.$end:0:$0:0">I find this interesting. The fact the religious teacher who sees everything from the perspective of the archdiosece of Denver, the most conservative religious institution out there, is disavowing the questions I posed as my deal... frankly interestin</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677378721066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677378721066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677378721066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$0:0">g. So Ryan you don't come at marriage from a religiosity view pious holy then thou view ... Really??? The reason I always bring up the love and compassion of Jesus, your pope and st. Francis is because if you studied the love in their hearts it might help you become less judgmental. That is all. I find your question to al very enlightened.</span></span></span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677378721066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677624331066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677624331066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Ryan</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677624331066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677624331066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677624331066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677624331066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677624331066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677624331066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0.$end:0:$0:0">The compassion and love of Jesus, the Pope, and St. Francis compelled them and inspires me to make judgments about what is true and what is false, what is good and what is evil. So I'd love to hear an explanation of your personal judgment of me for ma</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677624331066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677624331066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677624331066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$0:0">king the same principled judgments that they (above) do. Yes, you know I'm convinced that the Sacrament of Marriage instituted by Jesus and taught/administered by His universal Catholic Church is correct. (Your comment about Arch-Den shows true ignorance regarding the nature of Catholicism.) But in anticipation of comments like Alan's initial one, I had no interest in bringing that Catholic view to the table in this discussion. Alan is correct - the state has no interest in regulating a Catholic sacrament, nor should it. But like every civilization in the history of the world, it does have an interest in regulating marriage. Now, in your post you promote radically revising the secular state's traditional definition of marriage. So I asked you to clarify exactly what definition you are proposing. Why won't you answer the question?</span></span></span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677624331066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677624331066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$metadata:0"><abbr class="livetimestamp" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677624331066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$metadata:0.$timestamp-message.0" data-shorten="true" data-utime="1412873385" style="border-bottom-style: none; color: #9197a3; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;" title="Thursday, October 9, 2014 at 10:49am">October 9, 2014 at 10:49am</abbr><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677624331066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$metadata:0.3:0" style="color: #9197a3; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;"> · </span><span style="cursor: pointer;">Edited</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677624331066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeToggle:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">Like</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677624331066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><i class="UFICommentLikeIcon" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677624331066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.0" style="background-image: url(https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yq/r/OMU8iFYqlZn.png); background-position: -69px -511px; background-size: auto; bottom: 2px; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; display: inline-block; height: 14.5px; margin: 0px 3px -3px 0px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; position: relative; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap; width: 13px;"></i><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152677624331066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.1" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; margin: -5px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap;">1</span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679136561066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679136561066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Gloria</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679136561066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679136561066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679136561066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679136561066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679136561066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.$end:0:$0:0">Exactly Alan!!</span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679136561066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679136561066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$metadata:0"><span style="cursor: pointer;">October 9, 2014 at 7:30pm</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679136561066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeToggle:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">Like</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679136561066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><i class="UFICommentLikeIcon" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679136561066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.0" style="background-image: url(https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yq/r/OMU8iFYqlZn.png); background-position: -69px -511px; background-size: auto; bottom: 2px; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; display: inline-block; height: 14.5px; margin: 0px 3px -3px 0px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; position: relative; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap; width: 13px;"></i><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679136561066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.1" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; margin: -5px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap;">1</span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679139706066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679139706066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Gloria</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679139706066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679139706066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679139706066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679139706066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679139706066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.$end:0:$0:0">And Ryan , I didn't specified that the commitment is between two people, non family, that feel attraction and love for each other.</span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679139706066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679139706066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$metadata:0"><span style="cursor: pointer;">October 9, 2014 at 7:31pm</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679139706066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeToggle:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">Like</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679139706066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><i class="UFICommentLikeIcon" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679139706066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.0" style="background-image: url(https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yq/r/OMU8iFYqlZn.png); background-position: -69px -511px; background-size: auto; bottom: 2px; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; display: inline-block; height: 14.5px; margin: 0px 3px -3px 0px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; position: relative; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap; width: 13px;"></i><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679139706066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.1" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; margin: -5px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap;">1</span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679513036066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679513036066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Ryan</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679513036066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679513036066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679513036066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679513036066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679513036066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679513036066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0.$end:0:$0:0">Gloria, I'll ask the same question I asked Alan. On what grounds do you exclude family members from "marrying"? Also, a commitment to what? What kind of attraction? I love my best friend. We are "committed" to our relationship and we are both attracted</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679513036066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679513036066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679513036066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$0:0"> to each other's passion for discipleship, etc and our willingness to challenge the other to be a better person. Should the state regulate our relationship as a marriage?</span></span></span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152679513036066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683371236066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683371236066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Gloria</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683371236066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683371236066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683371236066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683371236066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683371236066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.$end:0:$0:0">I think my concept of marriage shouldn't be important! It's what you believe!</span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683371236066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683371236066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$metadata:0"><span style="cursor: pointer;">October 11, 2014 at 8:32am</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683371236066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeToggle:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">Like</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683371236066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><i class="UFICommentLikeIcon" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683371236066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.0" style="background-image: url(https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yq/r/OMU8iFYqlZn.png); background-position: -69px -511px; background-size: auto; bottom: 2px; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; display: inline-block; height: 14.5px; margin: 0px 3px -3px 0px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; position: relative; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap; width: 13px;"></i><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683371236066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.1" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; margin: -5px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap;">1</span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683382831066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683382831066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Luke</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683382831066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683382831066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683382831066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683382831066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683382831066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.$text0:0:$0:0">Bravo </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">Gloria</span></span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683382831066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683382831066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$metadata:0"><span style="cursor: pointer;">October 11, 2014 at 8:38am</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683382831066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeToggle:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">Like</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683382831066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><i class="UFICommentLikeIcon" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683382831066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.0" style="background-image: url(https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yq/r/OMU8iFYqlZn.png); background-position: -69px -511px; background-size: auto; bottom: 2px; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; display: inline-block; height: 14.5px; margin: 0px 3px -3px 0px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; position: relative; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap; width: 13px;"></i><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152683382831066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.1" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; margin: -5px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap;">1</span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684177296066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684177296066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Ryan</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684177296066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684177296066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684177296066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684177296066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684177296066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684177296066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0.$end:0:$0:0">Thanks for responding, Gloria. Now you're backtracking, and we've demonstrated where all this so-called "marriage equality" stuff leads. Now it's "whatever you believe"? So then your limit of 2 people, exclusion of relatives, and required commitment</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684177296066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684177296066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684177296066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$0:0">, attraction, and love are all optional? Anything goes? An adult and a minor, two siblings, polygamy, group-marriage, neighbors seeking to share health insurance, etc.? ...In all my discussions about marriage, this is the inevitable conclusion for revisionists (i.e., those wishing to revise the state's traditional conjugal definition of marriage) like Luke. As you've discovered in this brief dialogue, once you change the definition to include two men or two women, you have no legal principle or justification for any limits, exclusions, or requirements at all. So in the end, you've admitted that you don't actually want to revise the definition of marriage, you want to abolish it. For if marriage means anything, it means nothing! And then we must ask, would the abolishment of marriage be good for society? Why has every civilization in the history of the world figured out that the state better regulate sexual relations between men and women? Why has every civilization been built on strong marriages, and why has every civilization crumbled because of unstable marriages? The 1970s revision of marriage (allowing "no-fault divorce") has been beyond disastrous for our society. What makes you think radically doubling-down on that colossal mistake is a good idea?</span></span></span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684177296066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684456171066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$metadata:0"><span style="cursor: pointer;">October 11, 2014 at 4:39pm</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684456171066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeToggle:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">Like</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684456171066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><i class="UFICommentLikeIcon" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684456171066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.0" style="background-image: url(https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yq/r/OMU8iFYqlZn.png); background-position: -69px -511px; background-size: auto; bottom: 2px; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; display: inline-block; height: 14.5px; margin: 0px 3px -3px 0px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; position: relative; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap; width: 13px;"></i><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684456171066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.1" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; margin: -5px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap;">1</span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684504856066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684504856066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Ryan</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684504856066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684504856066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684504856066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684504856066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684504856066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684504856066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0.$end:0:$0:0">Gloria, we weren't talking about morality. We were simply considering what marriage policy is just and in the best interest of the state. You've effectively unraveled your own position of revision... But since you bring up right vs. wrong, just so we</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684504856066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684504856066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684504856066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$0:0">'re clear: you're saying that if a 40-year-old male thinks it's not wrong to forcibly "marry" seven different 14-year-old girls, then it's not wrong? If someone thinks it's right to own slaves, then it's right? If Hitler thinks it's not wrong to send 6 million Jews to the gas chamber, then it's not wrong? You are unwilling to tell a child rapist that he's wrong?</span></span></span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152684504856066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152687980451066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152687980451066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Alan</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152687980451066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152687980451066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152687980451066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152687980451066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152687980451066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.$end:0:$0:0">will eventually get back to this discussion <span class="emoticon emoticon_smile" style="background-image: url(https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yS/r/ckxre_asY0y.png); background-position: 0px -8033px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; background-size: auto; display: inline-block; height: 16px; vertical-align: top; width: 16px;" title=":)"></span> distracted by a ton of work currently</span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152687980451066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152687980451066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$metadata:0"><span style="cursor: pointer;">October 12, 2014 at 9:22pm</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152687980451066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeToggle:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">Unlike</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152687980451066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><i class="UFICommentLikeIcon" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152687980451066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.0" style="background-image: url(https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yq/r/OMU8iFYqlZn.png); background-position: -69px -511px; background-size: auto; bottom: 2px; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; display: inline-block; height: 14.5px; margin: 0px 3px -3px 0px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; position: relative; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap; width: 13px;"></i><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152687980451066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.1" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; margin: -5px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap;">2</span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Alan</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0.$end:0:$0:0">My two unsubstantial cents:</span><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0.$end:0:$1:0" /><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0.$end:0:$3:0" /><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0.$end:0:$4:0">1) Separation of church/religion and state seems wise</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0"><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$1:0" /><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$2:0">2) In theory so does our government</span><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$3:0" /><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$4:0">3) We value, as a society, “equality,” on multiple levels</span><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$5:0" /><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$6:0">4) Countries with listless, unemployed, single men have multiple social problems</span><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$7:0" /><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$8:0">5) In contrast, happily married adults likely contribute to the stability of communities </span><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$9:0" /><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$10:0">6) If we separate religion/church from matters of state but insist on state-sanctioned marriage, and we are interested in stability and equality, I think it’s only reasonable to extend the “right” to marriage to all adults regardless of gender, race, etc.</span><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$11:0" /><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$12:0">7) A question – What is the harm in extending the right to marriage to people of any gender? Would such rights constitute a “threat” to the fabric of society? We clearly are ok with tolerating 20 to 30 thousand gun deaths a year (murder and suicide) because of our zeal for the “freedom” to own weapons. Does extending the right to marriage to gay persons somehow constitute more of a “threat” to society than gun violence, which we tolerate quite happily?</span></span></span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$metadata:0"><span style="cursor: pointer;">October 15, 2014 at 9:27am</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeToggle:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">Like</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><i class="UFICommentLikeIcon" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.0" style="background-image: url(https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yq/r/OMU8iFYqlZn.png); background-position: -69px -511px; background-size: auto; bottom: 2px; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; display: inline-block; height: 14.5px; margin: 0px 3px -3px 0px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; position: relative; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap; width: 13px;"></i><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152694042016066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.1" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; margin: -5px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap;">1</span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695014496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695014496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Gloria</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695014496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695014496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695014496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695014496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695014496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.$end:0:$0:0">I love educated people!!!</span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695014496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695014496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$metadata:0"><span style="cursor: pointer;">October 15, 2014 at 7:18pm</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695014496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeToggle:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">Like</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695014496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$MIDDOT:0"> · </span><i class="UFICommentLikeIcon" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695014496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.0" style="background-image: url(https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v2/yq/r/OMU8iFYqlZn.png); background-position: -69px -511px; background-size: auto; bottom: 2px; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; display: inline-block; height: 14.5px; margin: 0px 3px -3px 0px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; position: relative; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap; width: 13px;"></i><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695014496066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.3.$likeCount:0:$action:0.1" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; margin: -5px; padding: 0px 5px 4px; text-decoration: none; white-space: nowrap;">1</span></div>
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<div class="UFICommentContent" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0">
<span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.0.0.0" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Ryan</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.0"> </span><span data-ft="{"tn":"K"}" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body"><span class="UFICommentBody" data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0.$end:0:$0:0">Alan,</span><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0.$end:0:$1:0" /><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0.$end:0:$2:0">1. Yes, I've already said the state has no business regulating a Sacrament.</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3"><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0"><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$1:0" /><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$3:0" /><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$4:0">2. Yes, it's wise to have a limited government.</span><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$5:0" /><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$7:0" /><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$8:0">3. Yes, "All men are created equal, endowed by their Creator with inalienable rights..." Amen.</span><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$9:0" /><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$11:0" /><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$12:0">4. Ok?</span><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$13:0" /><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$15:0" /><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$16:0">5. What an understatement! A strong marriage culture has been the foundation for every civilization in the history of the world, and unstable marriages have always led to a civilization's downfall.</span><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$17:0" /><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$19:0" /><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$20:0">6. As written (taking words for their actual meaning), I don't disagree with this statement. Contrary to modern fantasies, there are only 2 genders. And all adults "regardless of gender or race" already do have the right to marry, in so far as they are eligible to marry and are seeking a MARITAL relationship. I am not eligible to get married, because I am already married to someone else. Should I claim unjust discrimination if my "religion" held it was ok to marry multiple people? Can a man claim unjust discrimination if he seeks to call his relationship with his sister or uncle or neighbor a "marriage"? The traditional conjugal view of marriage has nothing to do with unjust discrimination. This campaign for so-called "marriage equality" is a sentimental-sounding euphemism. We already have marriage equality. The real question is "WHAT IS MARRIAGE?", and Alan, neither you nor Luke have yet to fully answer this question, which I think is very telling. (I'm grateful to Gloria for carrying that line of questioning to its logical conclusion!)</span><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$21:0" /><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$23:0" /><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$24:0">7. Since "people of any gender" already have the right to marry, I'm guessing you meant to say, "What's the harm in calling a relationship between two men or two women a 'marriage'?" And while I don't accept your premise regarding gun control and shootings, I don't see how getting sidetracked by that debate would be relevant to the issue at hand. "What's the harm in issuing 'marriage' licenses to same-sex couples?" This is a very worthy question to consider. Princeton's Prof. Robbie George, Ryan Anderson and others have brilliantly explained the inevitable harm, with solid research to back it up. The answer relies on 3 simple truths: Law tends to shape behavior. Beliefs shape behavior. And beliefs and behavior affect human interests and human well being. </span><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$25:0" /><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$27:0" /><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$28:0">Harm #1: It will destroy marriage! And as you noted above, marriage is the foundation of any stable society. That is, it is in the best interest of the state to regulate conjugal unions (btw, neither sodomy nor mutual masturbation form a conjugal union, of course) so as to legally unite them and any children conceived from their union. The fact that children are best raised to thrive as citizens/humans with their married biological parents is indisputable. So to change marriage to mean anything/nothing is a death-wish for society. A strong conjugal marriage culture - promoting exclusive, permanent unions ordered toward procreation and family life - is what is good for society. Your revisionist view would teach that marriage is fundamentally about emotional union, and put inconsistent feelings central to its vow. Any legal justification or social pressure for exclusivity or permanence (or excluding relatives for that matter) is gone with your view, as Gloria discovered. By warping people's view of marriage, revisionist policy would make them less able to realize this basic way of societal and individual thriving. We've already seen this tragically play out with revisionist's "no-fault divorce" laws.</span><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$29:0" /><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$31:0" /><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$32:0">Harm #2: That state will balloon in attempts to replace the family. Again, we've already seen this since marriage culture has crumbled in the last 50 years. Because children fare best on most indicators of health and well-being when reared by their wedded biological parents, the further erosion of healthy marital norms would adversely affect children's health, education, and general formation. And the poorest communities will be hit the hardest! The state will balloon further to adjudicate breakup and custody issues, to meet the needs of spouses and children affected by divorce, and to feebly (attempt to) correct the challenges these children will face. Of course, the state obviously cannot replace the family. This simply has not worked. Ever.</span><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$33:0" /><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$35:0" /><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$36:0">Harm #3: It will make mother and father superfluous. Redefining civil marriage will teach that a woman can be a father and a man can be a mother, which will make it even more socially acceptable for fathers to leave their families, or for children to be purposely created for a household without a mother or a father. The devastation caused by this has already been demonstrated by a mountain of evidence provided by secular social science. Doubling-down on this trend = societal suicide.</span><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$37:0" /><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$39:0" /><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$text0:0:$40:0">Harm #4: It threatens moral and religious freedom. In the past, </span><span style="color: #3b5998;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">Luke</span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$0:0"> has assured me that revisionists respect religious freedom. At this point, if anyone somehow believes that ridiculous claim, they must never watch/read the news. Since support for conjugal marriage is now treated like racism, the current trend toward homofascist tyranny is the logical result. EVERY DAY we can read a new story about photographers, caterers, bakers, florists, innkeepers, adoption/fostercare agency officials, pastors, etc. (heck, even sportscasters!) being forced to renounce their faith or lose their job/business. I know my days providing for my family as a parochial school administrator and theology teacher are numbered. So much for separation of church and state... or equality... or freedom.</span><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$1:0" /><br data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$3:0" /><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$4:0">There's more, such as the undermining of friendship. But this is too long already. Let me know if you're able to come up with the revised definition of marriage you are proposing, with justified reasons for any limits, requirements, or exclusions. Thanks for the substantive conversation - a rarity on Facebook. Peace to you and yours.</span></span></span></span></span></span><span data-reactid=".3.1:4:1:$comment10152674784071066_10152695217946066:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.6"></span></div>
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Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7668712860846217013.post-82015631609574125812015-04-26T15:05:00.000-06:002015-04-26T15:05:47.570-06:00On the Capacity to MarryAnd we're back. It's been a busy spring. <br />
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While we've been doing online marriage prep instruction for over three years now, this month we're teaching our first live class. Last week we went through the real meaning of the marital vows and the topic of physical impediments to marriage was covered. As usual, the fact that impotence (Note: not the same thing as sterility.) renders one incapable of marriage comes as a surprise to many people, especially when hearing it for the first time. When some in the class struggled to wrap their minds around whether it was just for the Church to "deny marriage to a couple" on these grounds, I didn't do a very good job of explaining it. So I wrote up a clarification email to our students and thought I'd post it here.<br />
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<span class="im">After thinking about the questions raised last week regarding physical impediments to marriage (i.e., impotence), we wanted to offer a more accurate answer.</span></div>
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When asked to confirm that "the Church really won't allow the paralyzed, for example, to marry," our response was essentially, "yes, that is correct." However, a more accurate answer is "<b>actually, the Church denies marriage to nobody</b>."...</div>
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Let us explain. Marriage is a natural human institution that Jesus Christ elevated to a Sacrament through His Church. The nature of this unique human relationship requires certain realities, which were covered in Class #3 (freely chosen, without reservations, etc.). Without being overly invasive, the Church does her best to ensure that the couple seeking a valid marriage meets these requirements. In other words, <b>the Church, as an act of love and mercy, attempts to prevent couples from living a lie</b><i>.</i> If the couple purposely hides the fact that they are actually incapable of swearing/consummating/living the vows of marriage and the wedding ceremony takes place, it's not as if they've "pulled one over on the Church" and "tricked" her into marrying them. <i>They're still not married!</i> </div>
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For example, if the bride is already bound by other marital or religious vows, the groom has a sex addiction, the bride is being pressured by her family to marry, the couple has signed a pre-nuptial agreement, or the "bride" is actually a man, they are simply incapable of marriage. If one of these realities becomes known, the Church has an obligation, out of love, to prevent the swearing of fraudulent vows they are incapable of living out. It would actually be quite cruel to knowingly allow/encourage couples to attempt the impossible, swearing blasphemous oaths at great damage to their souls.</div>
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And this applies to the case of impotence. It's not about denying impotent persons marriage. Their condition, however tragic the case might be, renders them incapable of marriage. What makes marriage different from any other type of loving, committed relationship? <i>Comprehensive</i> union - mind, soul, <i>AND</i> body. The Church attempts to prevent the impotent person from swearing an oath he is incapable of living. He simply cannot make a total gift of himself, so how can he promise to do so? It would be like me promising to give you each one million dollars (I'm a teacher, remember, so I'm incapable of fulfilling such a promise!).</div>
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While sentimental feelings for others (especially the disabled) makes it natural, at first glance, to question whether this is a justified requirement, confusion surrounding this issue actually cuts to the heart of the heated marriage debate currently raging within our culture. The traditional view of marriage is that it's a <i>conjugal </i>union - that is, a permanent, exclusive one-flesh union between one man and one woman, for their good and the good of any children conceived of this union, distinct by its <b><i>totality</i></b>. We now battle a revisionist view of marriage claiming that it's simply an <i>emotional</i> union, distinct by its <b><i>intensity</i></b>. The current advocacy for so-called "same-sex marriage" is only the latest trend served by this view, as it was made possible by previous movements toward incoherent, incomplete (contracepted) "unions" and no-fault divorce. </div>
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A false premise aiding this sentimental confusion is that marriage is the "ultimate" human relationship and without it a human being is denied fulfillment. This is a lie! First of all, the "ultimate" relationship, the only one that completely fulfills the human heart, is with God. We can't expect our spouse to "complete us", because only God can do that. (Sorry, Jerry Maguire fans.) Second, marriage is only one type of many relationships which can foster happiness and lead us to holiness. Non-sexual relationships with family or friends can be just as intimate and fulfilling as marital relationships, if not more so. How about Sts. Francis and Clare? Ignatius and Francis Xavier? Benedict and Scholastica?</div>
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I could go on (as you well know :), but the bottom line is this: The question is not "why does the Church deny marriage to impotent men, same-sex couples, minors, etc?" She doesn't. Is the couple claiming to seek marriage fully capable of freely/honestly swearing and living the vows of one-flesh conjugal union without reservation? This is the question. If the answer is no, then the Church ought not pretend otherwise and sanction an attempt to live the impossible. To expect the Church to turn a blind eye to reality, while sentimental, has nothing to do with compassion or kindness or love. There is no love without truth.</div>
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Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7668712860846217013.post-86757404445944194422015-01-17T09:31:00.001-07:002015-01-17T09:31:49.976-07:00Death with Dignity?Now that the Culture of Death has found its poster child (Brittany Maynard, who moved to Oregon where it is legal to hire an assassin disguised as a "doctor" to help her kill herself), the big push for more states to adopt Oregon's so-called "Death with Dignity" law has begun in earnest. <br />
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The following video from <a href="http://reallifecatholic.com/" target="_blank">Chris Stefanick</a> is the best response I've seen. It needs to be spread far and wide. The Culture of Life has its own poster child.<br />
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Who is truly dying with dignity? Brittany or Lizz? You decide.<br />
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<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="284" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/0nf_rb2qkbE?rel=0" width="504"></iframe>Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7668712860846217013.post-27195508529960162072014-12-18T21:27:00.000-07:002014-12-18T21:27:29.275-07:00This means war!<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="284" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/qG7q0rz5L5M?rel=0" width="504"></iframe>Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7668712860846217013.post-34819077666418695322014-11-02T05:35:00.000-07:002014-11-02T15:00:13.220-07:00All Hallows!Last year we wrote about "<a href="http://domesticchurchmilitant.blogspot.com/2013/11/keeping-hallows-in-halloween.html" target="_blank">Keeping the Hallows in Hallowe'en</a>". Here are some photos and a video of our festivities this year. We had a 3-stop "progressive dinner" party with friends - 4 families with 13 kids under 7. Each stop had a game related to Hallowe'en (the real honoring the saints and mocking evil, not the nihilistic secularized fright-fest version) and candy for the kids.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgxvpEe1mJmLaa-odbZK88TzAAI8Ct7mMbG__5vXCZDGu3n9yKOEh6IjxWwOMiJAGlGFSH5FFvFwdx0XyerQnJAyhNaI7wcMBK-KRaBVDuc6z21NJjs2emqXGEFEo6vuW4s4yl3v-mAEPeo/s1600/IMG_20141026_183305136-SMILE.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgxvpEe1mJmLaa-odbZK88TzAAI8Ct7mMbG__5vXCZDGu3n9yKOEh6IjxWwOMiJAGlGFSH5FFvFwdx0XyerQnJAyhNaI7wcMBK-KRaBVDuc6z21NJjs2emqXGEFEo6vuW4s4yl3v-mAEPeo/s1600/IMG_20141026_183305136-SMILE.jpg" height="180" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">IHS and St. George on his horse "saint-o-lanterns." The boys learned about the mess that our souls are because of Original Sin. Our journey towards sainthood starts with Baptism, when God cleans out the mess and replaces it with the light of Christ.</td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg910EDwgJJ5DoM_bfEAxNfsWh97w2EdSME9tSRxl9PURaz5g1pUI9-1xINEpp732EsL_PYv7I7-4B_QGV-e0c_tIC6UHZmZgmOUcJkRY5jP-vxy72INyhf0trgOxTb1jXzICAYrq-ZfGk3/s1600/IMG_20141031_134719503_HDR.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg910EDwgJJ5DoM_bfEAxNfsWh97w2EdSME9tSRxl9PURaz5g1pUI9-1xINEpp732EsL_PYv7I7-4B_QGV-e0c_tIC6UHZmZgmOUcJkRY5jP-vxy72INyhf0trgOxTb1jXzICAYrq-ZfGk3/s1600/IMG_20141031_134719503_HDR.jpg" height="320" width="180" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The winning teacher costume at school - St. Maximilian Kolbe</td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj4tD-XxAINZ8wsPpFLi0i6n7lGfNkIHLJnNUYljt3tiHSVxTx-SvwwxYkQlLbzhDSl6jFwmMl_1QfE9ghRx-kzKUZFgStr_7I3qJDmHAFJ1HaX7pH_puvz_WyaF8yUMhbrlD9HVoz4c2iz/s1600/IMG_20141031_173116747.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj4tD-XxAINZ8wsPpFLi0i6n7lGfNkIHLJnNUYljt3tiHSVxTx-SvwwxYkQlLbzhDSl6jFwmMl_1QfE9ghRx-kzKUZFgStr_7I3qJDmHAFJ1HaX7pH_puvz_WyaF8yUMhbrlD9HVoz4c2iz/s1600/IMG_20141031_173116747.jpg" height="320" width="180" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Pope St. John Paul the Great and St. Juan Diego</td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg-NopsWDZlw6XXP3kfJS4BzIPNFyJKHgMxz7-WXaREr9p3bQt4uUiWaFB0GX5YYPD71qDtid1_sQgjWznKF16Ad2gz9L6Lz00jSsNBnq1MkSkfnHeGNnZcg0zPCL6mzPg1xgkFNZOi2nvv/s1600/IMG_20141031_184626052.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg-NopsWDZlw6XXP3kfJS4BzIPNFyJKHgMxz7-WXaREr9p3bQt4uUiWaFB0GX5YYPD71qDtid1_sQgjWznKF16Ad2gz9L6Lz00jSsNBnq1MkSkfnHeGNnZcg0zPCL6mzPg1xgkFNZOi2nvv/s1600/IMG_20141031_184626052.jpg" height="320" width="180" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=366" target="_blank">St. Lawrence</a></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgGUxEAS0WmU-EnxCaTRdIblrA6sATe_4E56aq45qhL66PxUpYpLYtpFyrlNXdFEUBDdTnepvJQbBBz-c37c0kU8Xh8VftSxZnmUeO83GOJ13CEX5KpHDylzr3fok6e9xz1n2wOk0I4c72z/s1600/IMG_20141031_175651331.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgGUxEAS0WmU-EnxCaTRdIblrA6sATe_4E56aq45qhL66PxUpYpLYtpFyrlNXdFEUBDdTnepvJQbBBz-c37c0kU8Xh8VftSxZnmUeO83GOJ13CEX5KpHDylzr3fok6e9xz1n2wOk0I4c72z/s1600/IMG_20141031_175651331.jpg" height="180" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The Church Militant honoring the Church Triumphant</td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhVuSrLZ09r0iX8EplFAQcM_ZmT3b-uX37VQ0NeWnMkNGcdefeuTFg_COMRwz68AVhhqM6qVYIBWSCcvueJ6f55O5rFxQGM88Chm85wvkbds_AIe7zSyw37rhyphenhyphen0h5pntEVJJtUFrzZCKgXa/s1600/IMG_20141031_180235064.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhVuSrLZ09r0iX8EplFAQcM_ZmT3b-uX37VQ0NeWnMkNGcdefeuTFg_COMRwz68AVhhqM6qVYIBWSCcvueJ6f55O5rFxQGM88Chm85wvkbds_AIe7zSyw37rhyphenhyphen0h5pntEVJJtUFrzZCKgXa/s1600/IMG_20141031_180235064.jpg" height="180" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Pin the Sacred Heart on Jesus or Mary</td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhBDttXQoGRlBTZgBuWuN7eWvMd9SFnmkSx34ZFBLjJYuKGEAZLViyUrp6QWXgVcH8zbaE4rQwiBb6AsBB6g4ygVe3gdJwRkqUueYczRuvrVZ7q9EHa3wuwGlXRAPMiLuB3yqT-H_cnJj7Y/s1600/IMG_20141031_200312662.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhBDttXQoGRlBTZgBuWuN7eWvMd9SFnmkSx34ZFBLjJYuKGEAZLViyUrp6QWXgVcH8zbaE4rQwiBb6AsBB6g4ygVe3gdJwRkqUueYczRuvrVZ7q9EHa3wuwGlXRAPMiLuB3yqT-H_cnJj7Y/s1600/IMG_20141031_200312662.jpg" height="180" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Saint Musical Chairs</td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgdoHmSiloCpTic725xX1fEYrAhsI2clNB7q4UaVAnJdLLu7otS_rm9FFCX9aVFYjeIDagsyd8wsGDvRz8qm7syNz9kXokVu_SymYBl513i8NKnyZdKHf5KL_3JeeX2HZZV83bOn2wuaBGr/s1600/IMG_20141031_201712322.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgdoHmSiloCpTic725xX1fEYrAhsI2clNB7q4UaVAnJdLLu7otS_rm9FFCX9aVFYjeIDagsyd8wsGDvRz8qm7syNz9kXokVu_SymYBl513i8NKnyZdKHf5KL_3JeeX2HZZV83bOn2wuaBGr/s1600/IMG_20141031_201712322.jpg" height="180" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Explaining the need for some saints to cast out some demons at the next house. "Don't be afraid. The name of Jesus has infinite power. Just say, 'In the name of Jesus, get outta here!'. The saint who stomps the most demons wins.</td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg_pUr3DRHkGgRRJ0rvFVH4CDU6TeZWTW19uw6mOMdwxnGwC5hyphenhyphen5EIEmhEQBngbhrpyG7TIEnDFVkrKBgqhR8XlZ3y3BPoO6lZTKbAz1iZ2GkWbFkYai2Z5aCRjmDi55I_B4PtEvxnvGdx5/s1600/IMG_20141031_202113882.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg_pUr3DRHkGgRRJ0rvFVH4CDU6TeZWTW19uw6mOMdwxnGwC5hyphenhyphen5EIEmhEQBngbhrpyG7TIEnDFVkrKBgqhR8XlZ3y3BPoO6lZTKbAz1iZ2GkWbFkYai2Z5aCRjmDi55I_B4PtEvxnvGdx5/s1600/IMG_20141031_202113882.jpg" height="320" width="180" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Fired up to fight demons.</td></tr>
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<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="578" mozallowfullscreen="" src="//player.vimeo.com/video/110676895" webkitallowfullscreen="" width="325"></iframe> <br />
<a href="http://vimeo.com/110676895">Hallowe'en Demon Stomp</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user21758224">Domestic Church Militant</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com/">Vimeo</a>.<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhwpLi2pJukWv1rmDExEbc_gJEHIv_fgex9nDWRN3wzMpHlq80maNDfC54ay3esjKdKjmjGaCisNyWjHUhEAsgoI8nKxTyr_3VDtcj_71CC9ViBFdMtXY4ENialAucn9uSbM4pVkJ08KBzJ/s1600/IMG_20141031_203558854.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhwpLi2pJukWv1rmDExEbc_gJEHIv_fgex9nDWRN3wzMpHlq80maNDfC54ay3esjKdKjmjGaCisNyWjHUhEAsgoI8nKxTyr_3VDtcj_71CC9ViBFdMtXY4ENialAucn9uSbM4pVkJ08KBzJ/s1600/IMG_20141031_203558854.jpg" height="320" width="180" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Kolbe: "In the name of Jesus [and with the authority of St. Peter], get outta here!"</td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj7lN8A9tQnRogKKfENP-eX8ihNw7FD22cRzG13IFIA69Wl24TYM5oXwRvf4xF_oB1gyYDL5z7OeJhMjt_ne2R_vhxkdkgpDWvB4Pfj_su5zHSgDOgeRS3lh8ywEUYpleO4RnKTO4Vdmk4d/s1600/IMG_20141031_210758037.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj7lN8A9tQnRogKKfENP-eX8ihNw7FD22cRzG13IFIA69Wl24TYM5oXwRvf4xF_oB1gyYDL5z7OeJhMjt_ne2R_vhxkdkgpDWvB4Pfj_su5zHSgDOgeRS3lh8ywEUYpleO4RnKTO4Vdmk4d/s1600/IMG_20141031_210758037.jpg" height="180" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">All sugared up, why not end the night with a little wrestle mania?</td></tr>
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Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7668712860846217013.post-81646077021481467532014-09-07T21:00:00.000-06:002014-09-07T21:05:30.013-06:00It's a Christian!<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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Born on Mother Teresa's birthday, our little Fulton was <i>reborn</i> on her Feast Day, September 5! (How cool is that?!)<br />
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As instituted by Jesus Christ, the Sacrament of Baptism has saved him (see 1Pet. 3:21)! He has been adopted by God and now shares as an heir in the eternal glory of Jesus Christ (see Gal. 4:5-7). Fulton's covenant relationship with God was ratified at 8:17 A.M. before an all-school Mass with all students and staff on hand. As circumcision initiated children into the Old Covenant at 8 days old based on the faith of their parents, Fulton was initiated into the New Covenant via Baptism, which replaces circumcision, as taught by St. Paul (see Col. 2:11-12). These promises have been made to us and our household (see Acts 16:15, 31, 33; 1Cor. 1:16).<br />
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Since we celebrate a baptism within our circle of friends quite often, it's easy to forget about these truths, which were taught by our Lord, passed on to his apostles and their successors, and confirmed in Scripture. The familiarity makes it easy to forget about the magnitude of what actually took place here!<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhKITlNqzGqSXyP3o-3ClHnT6ypsnajkmaUL56OUQNBo2k-XrDrpNI4740n4P7LU1jQMOMsiYPunCUE26AEVrOUiWId3U1oU2ysbB-oispIq4IuGBR1oj7o621TJ-tqbYiW8FR9MRo-eP1_/s1600/DSC03330.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhKITlNqzGqSXyP3o-3ClHnT6ypsnajkmaUL56OUQNBo2k-XrDrpNI4740n4P7LU1jQMOMsiYPunCUE26AEVrOUiWId3U1oU2ysbB-oispIq4IuGBR1oj7o621TJ-tqbYiW8FR9MRo-eP1_/s1600/DSC03330.JPG" height="300" width="400" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Fulton was the 31st Hoffman, including his mother and grandmother, to wear this 68-year-old baptismal gown made my his great-great-grandmother, with some help from the Carmelite nuns in Louisville, Kentucky.</td></tr>
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Some might wonder, why so early? While we had our first two sons baptized barely within the 40-day window recommended by the Church, those weeks were filled with some anxiety. But after <a href="http://domesticchurchmilitant.blogspot.com/2013/10/a-tale-of-three-ultrasounds.html" target="_blank">losing a child</a> before the chance to baptize, the sense of urgency was greatly magnified for us. This time, waiting 10 days seemed a long time, and we experienced a huge sense of relief on Friday.<br />
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The proper sense of urgency has been largely lost by modern Christianity for several reasons. Part of this loss stems from missing the effects of Original Sin (see Rom. 5:12-19; 1Cor. 15:21-23), which leads to a lack of understanding regarding the <i>necessity</i> of Baptism, even for "innocent" infants (see John 3:5). Part of this shift in practice also comes from a misreading of paragraph 1261 of the Catechism, which mentions a "hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism." Notice <i>hope</i>, not certainty. For more on this misunderstanding, I highly recommend this article from <i>Crisis Magazine</i>: <a href="http://www.crisismagazine.com/2014/the-urgency-of-infant-baptism" target="_blank">The Urgency of Infant Baptism by Dr. Jared Staudt</a>.<br />
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And to see further questions on infant baptism (an issue close to our hearts for multiple reasons) addressed on a previous post, see <a href="http://domesticchurchmilitant.blogspot.com/p/infant-baptism.html" target="_blank">this tab</a>.<br />
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Please join us in offering prayers of thanksgiving and welcoming Fulton into the family of God!<br />
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Bl. Teresa of Calcutta and Ven. Fulton Sheen, pray for us!<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh9kLapvGn2m9Nl7MEeEIXoCojHadqbOy1iS4KlWGkUgCin_72oFoV9SSCb1d1_ilVBCB6gr-VWGEnHyrPn_UqnqNxwmL58PI3goRG4srdwpVTUB9Rs-q8TXVpPtTPgaaIp1Dt-N6h0dp2X/s1600/DSC03333.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh9kLapvGn2m9Nl7MEeEIXoCojHadqbOy1iS4KlWGkUgCin_72oFoV9SSCb1d1_ilVBCB6gr-VWGEnHyrPn_UqnqNxwmL58PI3goRG4srdwpVTUB9Rs-q8TXVpPtTPgaaIp1Dt-N6h0dp2X/s1600/DSC03333.JPG" height="300" width="400" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A special thanks to his Godparents, Elias and Claudia, and Fr. Brian.</td></tr>
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<br />Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7668712860846217013.post-34459600902683998752014-08-30T15:31:00.000-06:002014-08-30T15:31:20.271-06:00BrothersJohn Paul singing the Salve Regina to baby Fulton...<br />
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<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="284" mozallowfullscreen="" src="//player.vimeo.com/video/104814160" webkitallowfullscreen="" width="504"></iframe> <br />
<a href="http://vimeo.com/104814160">JP Serenades Baby Brother</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user21758224">Domestic Church Militant</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com/">Vimeo</a>.<br />
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Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7668712860846217013.post-12608150450650778252014-08-27T08:20:00.001-06:002014-09-16T17:08:39.843-06:00It's a Boy!<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i>"Certainly sons are a gift from the Lord, the fruit of the womb, a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior are the sons born in one's youth. Blessed is the man who has filled his quiver with them. He will never be shamed, for he will destroy his foes at the gate." </i> ~Psalm 127:3-5</blockquote>
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<span style="font-size: large;">INTRODUCING...</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: large;">Fulton Michael</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: large;">Born 8/26, 7:12 P.M.</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: large;">9 lbs. 7.5 oz.</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: large;">22 1/4 in.</span></div>
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We stuck with our modern-day saint first name, family middle name "formula" in naming Fulton Michael. He is named after <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulton_J._Sheen" target="_blank">Venerable Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen</a>. Just as we did with John Paul, we anticipated an immanent declaration from the Church. Fulton Sheen's Beatification, which we hope to attend with our Fulton, awaits only final approval from the College of Cardinals and then from Pope Francis. Sheen will (hopefully) be the first American-born male saint to be Beatified.<br />
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<b>Who was Fulton Sheen? </b> He was an American priest and bishop most known for his <i>Life is Worth Living</i> television program in the 1950s. As a Catholic bishop, he actually won two Emmy's for Most Outstanding Television Personality! His show was syndicated in the 60s and his TV career was preceded by 20 years on the radio hosting <i>The Catholic Hour</i> in the 30s and 40s. The <a href="http://www.fultonsheen.com/mp3" target="_blank">digital versions</a> of his shows often keep me company during my commute to work and on long road trips.<br />
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Archbishop Sheen's book <i>Three to Get Married</i> has had a profound impact on both Sarah and me. We often quote it during our marriage prep instruction, and it's our favorite gift to give to our newly engaged or married friends and family members.<br />
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My connection to this shoo-in saint is intensified by his Illinois roots. He was born in El Paso, Illinois and raised and ordained in Peoria. He went to undergrad at what was St. Viator College (now Olivet Nazarene University) in Bourbonnais, near my hometown. Some of his family members even lived in Herscher and were parishioners at my home parish of St. Margaret Mary. <br />
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Monsignor Sheen became Auxiliary Bishop of New York City in 1951 before being named Bishop of Rochester in 1966. He died in 1979. His <a href="http://www.archbishopsheencause.org/" target="_blank">cause for sainthood</a> was opened by the Diocese of Peoria in 2002 and cleared step two (of four) when Pope Benedict XVI declared him "Venerable" in 2012. A miracle attributed to his intercession is required for the third step of Beatification (after which he will be called "Blessed"). That <a href="http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/vatican-panel-approves-archbishop-fulton-sheen-miracle/" target="_blank">miracle has been recently approved</a> by both the medical and theological boards! It involved a 2010 miraculous recovery of a stillborn Peoria baby who showed no signs of life for 61 minutes!<br />
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Venerable Archbishop Fulton Sheen, pray for us!<br />
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Fulton Michael is also named after his triple-great grandfather. Michael Sr. was the original O'Connor to emigrate from Ireland in 1852, and Michael Jr. followed with his siblings in 1853. They first lived in Paris, KY (near Lexington) before moving to Utica, IL in 1854 and then finally settling outside of my hometown of Herscher in 1868.</div>
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See more pictures below. We thank God for this most amazing blessing!</div>
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Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7668712860846217013.post-19003351345429696352014-08-13T21:01:00.002-06:002014-08-13T21:04:57.150-06:00Denver Catholic Biblical SchoolIn the spring of 2009 I heard <a href="http://dynamiccatholic.com/events/passion-and-purpose/" target="_blank">Matthew Kelly</a> speak when he came to Denver. He convinced me to go to Biblical School. Well, not explicitly, but he asked us to imagine a future conversation that might sound something like this: <br />
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God: So how was your life?<br />
You: Oh it was really amazing, God. Did a lot of great things. <br />
God: Read any good books? <br />
You: Oh yes, lots of good books. <br />
God: Did you read my book? <br />
You: Yeah, well, um, I read bits and pieces, you know, heard most of it while at Mass, but...<br />
God: But you didn't sit down and read the whole thing?<br />
[Awkward silence.]<br />
God: In 76 years you didn't have a chance to read the whole thing?<br />
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...I enrolled in the <a href="http://sjvdenver.edu/programs-of-study/biblical-school/#" target="_blank">Denver Catholic Biblical School</a> the following Fall! I didn't want to just read the whole thing, I wanted to study it, and this gave me the structure to do it in 4 years - all 73 books.<br />
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I graduated in May of 2013, and after 25 years of schooling, I can honestly say that this was the best four years of instruction I've ever received. The DCBS provided an <i>authentic</i> education. <i>Educare</i>, from the Latin, means <i>to draw out</i>; that is, to draw out of a student his natural desire for wisdom and virtue.<br />
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Check out the Biblical School's new promotional video, which I'm honored to be a part of. (My 15 seconds of fame start at the 4:00 minute mark.)<br />
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<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="284" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/_n51UL3KP4M?rel=0" width="504"></iframe>Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7668712860846217013.post-29354193212075261842014-08-04T10:00:00.002-06:002014-08-04T10:00:37.532-06:00Let's Go CubsWith another Cubs/Rockies series upon us in Denver, I thought it was a good time to post this classic picture of John Paul.<br />
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<br />Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7668712860846217013.post-30377845699173142742014-08-01T06:30:00.000-06:002014-08-01T07:33:06.072-06:00Would Jesus eat at Chick-fil-A?Two years ago today Christians came out in droves to eat at Chick-fil-A in support of owner Dan Cathy. After Cathy told a magazine interviewer that he believed in the biblical definition of marriage, the homofascists came after him, even proclaiming that Chick-fil-A was not welcome in certain cities. (So much for "tolerance".) I was glad to support Chick-fil-A, and it's the only fast food restaurant we frequent to this day.<br />
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Anyway, that set the stage for one my <a href="http://domesticchurchmilitant.blogspot.com/2014/07/a-debate-on-abortion.html" target="_blank">Facebook debates</a>...<br />
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<span style="font-size: small;">August 3, 2012<a href="https://www.facebook.com/SchnibleBNimble?fref=ts#" style="color: #3b5998; display: inline-block; margin-left: 6px; text-decoration: none; zoom: 1;" target="_blank"><i style="background-image: url(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/proxy/AVvXsEirkVFw1KTnuRrMCBYd48C9xHKqBNq9YnYQy4_0-9a2zAl6UcwWoGzy_YnnBIFuGyeG_nr19LHHHMD3nE2rL8DvTEJpulwDAgW8q3TPYqZeYQJh082BVj3T7zJvBJfqYCpA7t7kOeLJxuzdlLcIS4MzWReRLAYwn8BgOrMwr93INg=s0-d-e1-ft); background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; display: inline-block; min-height: 12px; vertical-align: top; width: 12px;"></i></a></span></div>
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I did not go to Chick-Fil-A on Wednesday, and I haven’t been since 2004. To be quite honest, I’m not sure what my stance is on gay marriage. I don’t think that gay marriage is the SAME as heterosexual marriage, but at the same time I do not think that it’s fair if two people are in a committed and loving relationship to not be granted the same rights as married couples. I am not someone to judge whether it’s right or not, I love people regardless of sexual orientation, and I think the Chick-Fil-A “event” was blown out of proportion. I do think it is sad that as “Christians”, those who were demonstrating their stance have hurt so many wonderful people, and I don’t think that Jesus would have gone to Chick-Fil-A to order a chicken sandwich on Wednesday either. God calls us to love one another and that’s exactly what I plan on doing.</div>
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<b><span style="color: #3d85c6;">25 others</span></b><span style="background-color: #fafbfb; color: #4e5665; line-height: 14px;"> like this</span></div>
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<b><span style="color: #3d85c6;">Monica</span></b><span style="color: #4e5665;"> I agree, this Chick Fila thing was CRAZY! Way to spread even more hostile/ unfavorable opinions against Christianity, now that we are seen as fast food endorsing publicly anti-gay people. Geez. Christ certainly would not have eaten there with that crowd. He would have sought out and eaten with the shunned "gays" that day, WITHOUT condemnation in His Heart.</span></div>
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<b><span style="color: #3d85c6;">Annie</span></b><span style="color: #4e5665;"> Jenny</span><span style="color: #4e5665;"> your comments were well thought out! Thank you for reminding us all that we are called to live our lives as Jesus would- not judging or condemning bug LOVING!</span></div>
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<span style="color: #3d85c6;"><b>Ryan</b></span><span style="color: #4e5665;"> </span><span style="color: #4e5665;">Jenny, I appreciate your willingness to initiate a sensitive FB conversation with some substance. A few things, in response. First, Wednesday's Chick-fil-A event was to support not only the owner's biblical views on marriage, but also his First Amendment rights to express those views without being bullied by politicians threatening to deny his right to do business. The shocking admission of fascist philosophies by the mayors of Boston, Chicago, etc. should frighten and anger all Americans (regardless of their views on marriage), and hordes of supporters on Wednesday spoke loudly for religious freedom and freedom of speech.</span></div>
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Second, why are you "not someone to judge whether [SSM] is right or not"? Are you consistent in your application of this theory of moral relativism?<br />
<a name='more'></a>I suspect you judge the actions of James Holmes in the Aurora theater to be wrong, just as you judged the actions of Chick-fil-A supporters (like me) to be wrong. It is true that judging souls is left for God alone, but as Christians, not only CAN we judge actions, we MUST. And we base this moral judgment on the code God has revealed through both divine and natural law (not to mention - as Catholics - through the Church established by His Son... whose consistent, infallible teachings on human sexuality are so beautifully expressed, ranging from the succinct simplicity of the Catechism to the rich depths of JP2's Theology of the Body... teachings practicing Catholics cannot reject, but I realize that is a whole other conversation!). Bride and groom complementarity/nuptial imagery is the central reality of all of revelation. And it is consistent from Genesis to Revelation. Christian justification for a re-definition of marriage is a long road, to put it mildly.<br />
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Nobody knows if Jesus likes chicken, but we certainly do know he supports Dan Cathy's views on marriage, since He affirmed His Father's plan and design since the beginning of creation. Would Jesus also dine with our brothers and sisters living a homosexual lifestyle? Absolutely! And he would call them to conversion. "Now go and sin no more." The same way he sits down with me, a sinner, and invites me to overcome my disordered desires and follow HIm on a path to fulfillment/holiness.<br />
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Finally, regarding your comments about "loving all people"... You insinuate that I (and all other marriage defenders, including the Pope and the Saints like Mother Teresa!) do/did not love all people, especially not those with homosexual inclinations. To answer this question, we must determine an authentic definition of "love." You correctly turn to Jesus, of course, since God IS love. But you seem to reduce Jesus to some sort of anything-goes hippie who just wants a good time had by all, rather than acknowledge the reality - the Jesus who raised (not lowered) the moral bar of the Ten Commandments... the Jesus who warned of "wailing and gnashing of teeth" if we reject this code. The sacrificial love modeled by Jesus Christ "wills the good of another for the sake of the other" (Aquinas). And the evidence (whether theological or scientific) does not point to the homosexual lifestyle as a path to a person's true good.<br />
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So-called "love," in the absence of truth, is not love at all. It is mere sentimentality or, worse yet, a unique form of cruelty.<br />
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I love my good friend, but to engage in a sexual act with him would have nothing to do with love, since it would lead to his spiritual, physical, and emotional destruction. And while I don't struggle with this particular disordered desire, I struggle with many others. And those who truly love me will not support my giving in to them, but rather challenge me to overcome these desires through Jesus Christ and become the best version of myself. So who is truly "loving" and "hurting" those with same-sex attraction? Those who challenge them to live chastely in the freedom of self-mastery or those who encourage their enslavement to these desires? Might your admirable compassion be misguided?</div>
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<span style="color: #3d85c6;"><b>James</b></span><span style="color: #4e5665;"> Where else in the world....... This is why this country is without comparison 2nd to none other! Keep your free thinking strong Jenny. And keep your beliefs sacred and non negotiable!</span></div>
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<b style="background-color: white;"><span style="color: #3d85c6;">Alicia</span></b><span style="color: #4e5665;"> Hm.</span></div>
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<span style="color: #3d85c6;"><b>Seth</b></span><span style="color: #4e5665;"> </span><span style="color: #4e5665;">We as members of the church are to hold others within the church to the high standards represented in scripture (we should strive to understand the context in which those standards were given). For those outside of the church, we are to display compassion regardless of the condition in which we find our neighbors. That simply is how Jesus lived. He judged harshly the religious, and spent quality time with the dregs of society.</span></div>
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<b style="color: #3d85c6;">Ryan</b> Agree with the comment Seth, with one clarification and one footnote: "He judged harshly the [hypocrite] religious." And let's not forget... during this "quality time," He called the "dregs of society" to conversion.</div>
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<span style="color: #4e5665;"><b style="color: #3d85c6;">Seth</b> </span><span style="color: #4e5665;">Often He did, not always.</span></div>
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<b><span style="color: #3d85c6;">James</span></b><span style="color: #4e5665;"> Great dialogue folks! Pridefull!!!</span></div>
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<span style="color: #4e5665;"><b style="color: #3d85c6;">Ryan</b> </span><span style="color: #4e5665;">Not following, Seth. Are you suggesting that Jesus came to call some but not all of humanity to conversion?</span></div>
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<b style="color: #3d85c6;">Seth</b> All I am saying is He didn't hammer the issue when He was actually interracting. Often He just expressed compassion without using His compassion as a gimick to win a conversion. And sometimes He even rejected people like the woman who just wanted scraps from the table (not actual rejection, but intent to not convert). Actually, if my memory serves correctly, (I am stuck in a remote location with only my phone so I can't look it up right now) that pericope is telling because Jesus specifically talks about not being here for the gentiles, as in, He wasn't trying to convert her at all but did end up showing her compassion. Sometimes He just partied with sinners... The water to wine incident where He flatly states that his time had not yet arrived, but acquiesced to make the best wine for them.</div>
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<span style="color: #4e5665;"><b style="color: #3d85c6;">Ryan</b> </span><span style="color: #4e5665;">I don't see the connection between the Wedding at Cana story and the conversion of sinners. The woman looking for scraps had already converted ("have mercy on me"). Yes, Jesus points out that the New Covenant is for the Israelites first, but delivered her daughter from the demon anyway, as a precursor to his post-Resurrection call to conversion of Gentiles as well. He told the woman caught in adultery "now go and sin no more," He called out the woman at the well for her five husbands, explained that he was eating with tax collectors and sinners because they were "sick" and needed a "physician," etc. When did he not "hammer the issue"? ...And back to the topic at hand, how would/does Jesus treat those living a homosexual lifestyle? With compassion, of course! But does His compassion include approval or a call to conversion?</span></div>
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<b><span style="color: #3d85c6;">Jenny</span></b><span style="color: #4e5665;"> Wow - didn't know this post would get so many comments and such a discussion...thanks for everyone's input. Ryan, I agree with you on standing for the First Amendment, but I think the way that it happened ended up offending people and we could have found a more effective way of communicating that.</span><br />
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<span style="color: #4e5665;">As to judging others, I feel that I am not the one to make the call. See John 8:7 - "Let whoever is without sin among you be the first to cast a stone at her." </span><br />
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<span style="color: #4e5665;">In regards to insinuating that you don't love all people, I did not say that and did not intend for you to take that away from my post - just simply stating what I plan to do.</span></div>
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<b style="color: #3d85c6;">Ryan</b> Yes, Jenny, great discussion! The event communicated a two-fold purpose - stand up for the First Amendment and affirm Dan Cathy's Christian views on marriage. If it was the latter that people found offensive, that's no surprise. The Truth Incarnate, Jesus Christ, offends many people. That's why he was crucified, and that's why He promised we will be persecuted for His sake.<br />
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"Cast the first stone" refers to condemnation, the judgment of souls, which Scripture makes clear is for God alone (e.g, Lk 6:37, Mt 7:1-5). That cannot be confused with judging actions, which we are commanded to do. James 5:19-20: "My brethren, if any one among you wanders from the truth and some one brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins." See also Mt 18:15-17 & Ezk 3:18-21... And again, are you not judging Chick-fil-A supporters to be wrong? Do you make the call on whether James Holmes was wrong?<br />
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We both plan to love those living a homosexual lifestyle, but in opposite ways. Both can't be right. The question remains: is love without truth really love?</div>
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<b style="color: black;"><span style="color: #3d85c6;">James</span></b> No Ryan, "cast the first stone" refers to those who think they are without guilt judging others. Jesus said this as he intervened, i believe, at the outset of a crowd about to stone either a prostitute or adultress.</div>
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<b style="color: #3d85c6;">Ryan </b>Exactly, James. We cannot judge people. That's what I said. Condemnation is judging people. We can't even judge/condemn the souls of the 9/11 terrorists; that's for God alone. But objective morality still exists! And it is revealed to us as divine and natural law. So while we can't judge souls, we can (and MUST) judge actions (as evidenced by the passages quoted above). Can we not say that flying planes into buildings is wrong?</div>
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Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7668712860846217013.post-986534849780442892014-07-26T08:52:00.000-06:002014-07-31T22:35:54.088-06:00A Debate on AbortionAbout once a month I consider closing my Facebook account. It's so easy to get sucked into wasting a lot of time pretending to foster a connection with 400 "friends". But every month (so far) I decide to stay because of social media's evangelization potential. Even Pope Benedict urged Catholics to have a presence on the internet; the New Evangelization demands it. <br />
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With that in mind, I tend to shake things up a bit on Facebook. I've been "unfriended" more than once for this, but so be it. I'm not going to use it just to tell the world what shoes I decided to wear today and post pictures of the unique cloud formation I saw on my way to work. If people are willing to engage on the things that matter (which is rare), count me in.<br />
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Here is a debate I recently had regarding abortion. During serious discussions regarding religion or politics, I often find that people tend not to answer a point or counter-point, but rather just move on to another argument. That's what I thought "Julieta" was doing in this case, but apparently she thought the same thing about me. "You're not open to hearing anything I say," she said. Am I missing something?<br />
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[IMPORTANT NOTE: If you have been involved with an abortion, this is NOT a condemnation of <i>you</i>. No sin is too big for God's <a href="http://reallifecatholic.com/1/385/640/500/cvz4l9zi67a/yes/video/680/chrisstefanick" target="_blank">ocean of mercy</a>! Please see a priest and/or visit <a href="http://hopeafterabortion.com/" target="_blank">Project Rachel</a>.]<br />
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<b><span style="color: #3d85c6;"><u>Julieta</u></span></b><span style="color: #141823;"> If you are against abortion, the last thing you should be working for is making abortion illegal. Why? Because just like guns, drugs, and every other thing humans do, making something illegal doesn't stop it from happening. In fact, illegalizing abortion kills many, many full grown women, too. If you believe abortion is wrong, then it should your mission to work towards creating a world where no woman would ever make that decision. We currently do not live in that world.</span></div>
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<b><span style="color: #3d85c6;"><u>Ryan</u></span></b><span style="color: #141823;"> Legal abortions kill many adult women now, and the founder of NARAL has admitted to grossly inflating the actual numbers of women dying from illegal abortions pre-Roe. I strongly agree with you that we live in a very disordered world, and we should all work towards creating a culture "where no woman would ever make that decision" (I would add "or man or parent would pressure a woman to make that decision."). In fact, that's part of what I do for a living. It's also true that making abortion illegal would not eliminate 100% of abortions, but why does it follow that we should keep it legal? I think we should work towards creating a culture where no man would ever want to abuse his wife. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't also want to make spousal abuse illegal, even if it "happens anyway." A culture-shift is needed for sure, but making it illegal would not only eliminate around one million abortions each year, it would also go a long way in re-forming the culture. Why can't it be both? Why can't we save babies by changing hearts and supporting pregnant women, as well as by passing laws that give ALL human beings, regardless of size, environment, or level of development, the legal right to life?</span></div>
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<b style="color: black;"><span style="color: #3d85c6;"><u>Julieta</u></span></b> I come from a country where abortion was illegal. I do not need statistics as I learned directly from doctors working in the emergency rooms who saw the results of those policies and worked to change them. And legal abortions do not kill many women now... or if you think they do then be prepared to quadruple those rates. Abortion needs to be legal because in the USA we have separation of church and state. And if you are a religious person then you know that those protections were put there specifically to protect you and your beliefs. And we do not currently have laws that give children the right to anything. They are "protected" only after they have been abused, humiliated... broken. Many of the children who are born to women or girls unprepared emotionally, physically and financially to bear children will suffer enormously. They will be abused and abandoned... the foster system and the prisons are full of children like this, and they have NO RIGHTS. They are the leftovers, and make no mistake, they are damaged. But this does not matter. What matters is that each woman has the RIGHT to make that decision for herself, because she is a fully functional human being, who by law has the right to make decisions governing her own body. Forcing a woman to carry a child against her will is the worst kind of cruelty.</div>
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<b style="color: black;"><span style="color: #3d85c6;"><u>Ryan</u></span></b> For the record, I looked up the statistics. According to the CDC, in 1972 (the year before Roe v Wade), 24 women died from legal abortions and 39 died from illegal ones. Since Roe, an average of 11 women (not to mention 1.3 million babies) per year die from (legal) abortions.<br />
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While religious beliefs may strengthen one's conviction on this and many other issues, the case against abortion does not rely on religious beliefs at all. It can be based purely on science and a basic belief in the right to life. Even many atheists are strongly opposed to abortion.<br />
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I don't understand how you can claim that "children have NO RIGHTS". So children, whether under the care of their parents or in the foster system, don't have the right to life? It's legal to kill them?<br />
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I agree that women "have the right to make decisions governing her own body", but what does that have to do with the right to end the life of another human being?<br />
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but part of your argument seems to indicate that abortion is also the best option for the children themselves, that it's better to be killed than to live amidst such "hardship", and you believe there is no hope for them. In response, first, what about adoption, since there is a long waiting list of couples wishing to adopt newborns? Second, I'd be interested in your thoughts on this scenario: if the mother of a two-year-old suddenly falls into extreme "emotional, physical, and/or financial" hardship, should she have the right to kill her child, or should the law protect that two-year-old from being killed?</div>
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<span style="color: #141823;"><b style="color: black;"><span style="color: #3d85c6;"><u>Julieta</u></span></b> </span><span style="color: #141823;">There is no science that backs up the religious view, and there is NO ONE that is pro-abortion. People are pro-choice or anti-choice, That's it, but that doesn't matter. What matters is whether you view women simply as incubators or as people who ha</span><span style="color: #141823;">ve the right to control their own bodies. Last time I checked it takes two people to conceive a baby, but only one is reduced to being an incubator. And that's why the law is what it is.</span></div>
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<span style="color: #141823;"><b style="color: black;"><span style="color: #3d85c6;"><u>Ryan</u></span></b> </span><span style="color: #141823;">The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 7th edition... Langman's Medical Embryology, 10th edition... Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology, 7th edition... Human Embryology and Teratology, 3rd edition... Essentials of Human Embryol</span><span style="color: #141823;">ogy... Patten's Human Embryology... Biological Principles and Modern Practice of Obstetrics... Pathology of the Fetus and the Infant, 3rd edition</span></div>
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All of these (and many more) science textbooks teach that life begins at conception. (Even National Geographic confirms this.) In fact, can you find a single science textbook that says otherwise?<br />
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And if abortion is perfectly just and morally fine, then why not be pro-abortion? And what would you think of the position, "I'm not pro-slavery, but I'm pro-choice, that is, for the right of the owner to control his plantation."?<br />
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You never addressed what "the right to control their own bodies" has to do with the right to kill another human being?<br />
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When men fail to take responsibility for the conception of a baby, we take them to court, garnish their wages, and call them "deadbeats" (rightfully so!). Why then, when a woman fails to take this same responsibility, you defend/celebrate her right to "eliminate" her responsibility and call her a "freedom fighter"?<br />
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I certainly don't see how motherhood "reduces" the dignity of women. Incubator?! How dehumanizing! Since most women are "anti-choice", do they view themselves as "incubators"?<br />
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I view women as the most beautiful creature on earth, the crescendo of creation. It is legalized abortion that helps reduce her to an object to be used by men rather than a precious gift to be loved. It is legalized abortion that helps let men get away with using women. It is legalized abortion that helps reduce sex to a sterile, selfish act of lust, rather than an expression of total, fruitful self-giving love. Women deserve better.</div>
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<span style="color: #141823;"><b style="color: black;"><span style="color: #3d85c6;"><u>Julieta</u></span></b> </span><span style="color: #141823;">You are very confused and most definitely need a logic class. No one is PRO-abortion. Most women are PRO-CHOICE. Motherhood does not reduce dignity, and I never said that. Please DO NOT put words in my mouth. What I said was that FORCING a woman to</span><span style="color: #141823;"> carry a baby she doesn't want and isn't ready for is CRUEL. It is. You are in dire need of a logic class. But I'm done discussing with you as you are clearly not open to hearing anything I say.</span></div>
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<b style="color: black;"><span style="color: #3d85c6;"><u>Ryan</u></span></b><span style="color: #141823;"> </span><span style="color: #141823;">I looked up the latest Gallup Poll, and I stand corrected. Women identify as pro-choice by 50-41. However, only 21% of Americans overall think abortion should be legal in all circumstances. Nevertheless, I still ask, does that mean 41% of women (tho</span><span style="color: #141823;">se "anti-choicers") think of themselves as incubators?</span></div>
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So is it cruel to force a dad to pay child support and take care of a child he doesn't want and isn't ready for? Is it cruel to force a mother to feed and take care of a 2-year-old she doesn't want and isn't ready for? Is it cruel to violently dismember a child or crush his skull?<br />
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As for logic classes and not being "open to hearing anything you say", I find this charge curious. Anyone can look at this thread and see that I've addressed nearly every argument you've made (even if I misunderstood one or two of them, for which I apologize), while you have hardly addressed a single one of my points or answered a single one of my questions.</div>
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<span style="color: #141823;"><b style="color: black;"><span style="color: #3d85c6;"><u>Julieta</u></span></b> </span><span style="color: #141823;">Percentage of Americans believing something means nothing... or we'd still have slavery, segregation in schools and leaglized discrimination. These are but a few of the many "popular" ideas, none of which were moral that are no longer legal here. What is ethical is not a matter of public opinion all women who are anti-choice have every right to make that choice for themselves. That's the point. Being pro-choice does not mean that I force abortion upon any woman. It only means that until the day comes when no woman would ever make that choice, the ethical thing to do is keep it legal, regulated, safe and accessible to the women who, for lack of better terminology, have no other option. Your points do not address mine at all. But I don't expect you to see this either... You should also be very, very careful when it comes to erasing the separation of church and state. Because if it's okay for Christians to do it, it will also have to be okay for Muslims, Hindus, Atheists, and a whole range of other religions which you may or may not like. Those separations are there to protect those who practice religion.</span></div>
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<span style="color: #141823;"><b style="color: black;"><span style="color: #3d85c6;"><u>Ryan</u></span></b> </span><span style="color: #141823;">When have I used Christianity in my arguments?</span></div>
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So you think it's immoral to own another human being, but it's moral to kill one?<br />
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We don't "force abortion upon any woman"? I think the millions of baby girls killed each year (at a higher rate than boys) would definitely take exception to that statement! Why is adoption not "another option"? And what about the women in the same circumstances with older children? Should they be able to kill their children if they "have no other option"?</div>
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<span style="background-color: #f6f7f8;"><b><span style="color: #3d85c6;"><u>Eric</u></span></b></span><span style="background-color: #f6f7f8; color: #141823;"> </span><span style="background-color: #f6f7f8; color: #141823;">can we be against something but not use the law to force everybody else to conform to our norms? does it always have to "either/or, for/against"? as far as the abortion issue, why do most that are against abortion are for the death penalty? without protection by the law, the risks and harm always increase. just because one believes a woman has a right to choose does not mean they are for abortion and/or want to kill babies. early term abortions aren't even human like, so does that mean everybody that uses birth control is actually killing babies because they are killing the sperm or egg life.</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #f6f7f8; color: #141823;"><b style="background-color: transparent; color: black;"><span style="color: #3d85c6;"><u>Ryan</u></span></b> </span><span style="background-color: #f6f7f8; color: #141823;">Welcome to the conversation, </span><span style="background-color: #f6f7f8;">Eric<span style="color: #141823;">. I'll take a stab at answering your questions.</span></span></div>
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"can we be against something but not use the law to force everybody else to conform to our norms?"<br />
Sure, in some cases. But that can't be applied to all matters of justice, otherwise we'd have no laws and no civil society. In fact, every law is an attempt to force everybody to conform to a certain "norm". What if I wanted to ignore red lights or beat my wife, aren't you all for forcing me to conform to your norm against that, for the sake of social order and justice?<br />
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"does it always have to "either/or, for/against"?"<br />
I suppose it could be neutral if one hasn't made up his/her mind on a topic. Is there another option?<br />
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"why do most that are against abortion are for the death penalty?"<br />
Do you have some statistics on that? I don't know a single one of all my pro-life friends who is "for the death penalty." That being said, "against abortion but for the death penalty" isn't necessarily a contradictory position. Capital punishment and the killing of the most innocent in the womb are very different things.<br />
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"without protection by the law, the risks and harm always increase." I agree! Without protection by the law, the safest place on earth (the womb) has become the most dangerous (with only an 80% chance of making it out alive in America; 50% if you're African American!).<br />
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"just because one believes a woman has a right to choose does not mean they are for abortion and/or want to kill babies"<br />
Why do people love to hide behind the slick marketing euphemism "pro-choice"? When else is this type of logic utilized? That's like saying, just because I'm for the plantation owner's right/choice to own slaves, doesn't mean I'm for slavery or want to own slaves. And if there's no ethical problem with abortion, then why not just be "pro-abortion"?<br />
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"early term abortions aren't even human like"<br />
So the killing of a living human being is justified as long as the victim is not "human like"? Who determines what is "human like"? Are severely deformed or disabled human beings "human like"? How about unrecognizable burn victims? Don't all human beings, regardless of size or appearance, deserve legal protection from being killed?<br />
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"so does that mean everybody that uses birth control is actually killing babies because they are killing the sperm or egg life."<br />
A sperm is not a human being, and neither is an egg. It is when sperm and egg unite (fertilization) that a new human being with unique DNA comes into existence. Despite what Jon Stewart or MSNBC might think, this is an irrefutable fact of biology. While most "birth control" tries to prevent fertilization/conception, many forms of it do indeed act as an abortifacient (at least) as a "back-up" line of "defense". (Some of these are what Hobby Lobby objects to.) So it is likely that most women on most forms of "birth control" will have a few abortions without even knowing it.</div>
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<a dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/mick.erickson1?fref=ufi" style="color: #3b5998; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank"><br /></a><b style="color: black;"><span style="color: #3d85c6;"><u>Eric</u></span></b> Norms are not crimes big difference. Norms that dont cause harm are not the same as crime that does cause harm. Laws should not cause harm against people who have not harmed anyone. Locking up people for norms vs harmful crimes isn’t justice. </div>
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There certainly is other options. Not being for or against doesnt mean one is neutral, we can take stances without forcing other to live our belief systems. Why can’t we work together on principles and agree to disagree and live and let live with things in disagreement.<br />
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I don’t have statistics, just my personal study of friends, family, neighbors, etc over 40+ years. My opinion do have stats that say otherwise? Killing a womb could be highly debated whether that is really taking a life or not whereas, killing a live person is a big difference.<br />
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Do you have stats on the 80% out alive? It’s debatable whether that is life. What about the alive woman that risks her life without protection of the law?<br />
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That’s the opposition’s argument if you allow something than you are pro. Ridiculous! Nobody wants to kill babies and the mother knows what is best for individual situation than any government, institution or mob that wants to force the individual to their belief systems.<br />
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The problem with all your references is you are considering a fertilized egg a human. Does an egg have the same rights as a chicken? That is highly debated by all people in this country and if it debated 51% should not have the right to use the government to force the other 49% to their belief system.<br />
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A fertilized egg is not a human either, just like a sperm our unfertilized egg is not a human either so your point?</div>
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<span style="color: #141823;">also since we brought abortion into this and not war why do all the religious sects constantly want war?</span></div>
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<b style="color: black;"><span style="color: #3d85c6;"><u>Ryan</u></span></b><span style="color: #141823;"> "Norms that dont cause harm are not the same as crime that does cause harm"</span><br />
<span style="color: #141823;">If killing an unborn child by an injection to the heart, dismemberment, crushing his/her skull, or burning with saline is not a "crime that does harm", then I don't know what is.</span><br />
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<span style="color: #141823;">"Why can’t we work together on principles and agree to disagree and live and let live with things in disagreement."</span><br />
<span style="color: #141823;">If we lived by this mantra, then nobody would have ever fought against the injustices of slavery, segregation, etc. And we'd have no laws that "force" child molesters, rapists, and thieves to "live our belief systems".</span><br />
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<span style="color: #141823;">"Do you have stats on the 80% out alive?"</span><br />
<span style="color: #141823;">Yes. The CDC and the Guttmacher Institute (research arm of Planned Parenthood) have tons of stats on abortion. 1 in 5 pregnancies overall in the US ends with abortion. This, of course, does not count all the chemical abortions mentioned above, which makes the numbers much worse. It's also much worse for African Americans. Abortion kills twice as many blacks each year than does all other causes COMBINED. Yikes. </span><br />
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<span style="color: #141823;">"What about the alive woman that risks her life without protection of the law? "</span><br />
<span style="color: #141823;">You'll have to explain this question. What women (I assume you're talking about adult females, not unborn females) don't have "protection of the law"?</span><br />
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<span style="color: #141823;">"Nobody wants to kill babies"</span><br />
<span style="color: #141823;">With babies being killed in America to the tune of 3,300+ per day, I think it's safe to say this is a false statement.</span><br />
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<span style="color: #141823;">"the mother knows what is best for individual situation"</span><br />
<span style="color: #141823;">Again, by this logic, then we should allow mothers to kill their children at any age. 2-year-olds, 5-year-olds, etc.</span><br />
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<span style="color: #141823;">"Does an egg have the same rights as a chicken?"</span><br />
<span style="color: #141823;">I'm glad you brought this up! I don't know what rights a chicken has, but eagles are protected by law, with punishments including heavy fines, imprisonment, and even a felony. And guess what? Eagle eggs have the same protections! Go figure.</span><br />
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<span style="color: #141823;">"why do all the religious sects constantly want war?"</span><br />
<span style="color: #141823;">This is a red herring, but I only know of one "religious sect" that "constantly wants war", and it's certainly not Catholicism.</span><br />
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<span style="color: #141823;">"[when life begins] is highly debated by all people in this country"</span><br />
<span style="color: #141823;">As </span>Julieta<span style="color: #141823;"> mentioned above, true justice is not determined by popular opinion. Neither is a simple biological fact. See above for the many science textbooks I listed that teach life begins at conception. Can you name a single science textbook that says otherwise? The only reason this question is "highly debated" is because people conveniently seek to deny the humanity of the unborn (in the face of obvious facts) in order to justify the slaughter, much in the same way that Nazis dehumanized Jews in order to justify the holocaust. </span><br />
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<span style="color: #141823;">So it comes down to this, Eric. If you reject biology/science, when do you think life begins? And please provide evidence to back up this belief; otherwise, there is no reason you can justify forcing your unfounded (religious? philosophical?) belief upon millions of unborn children.</span><br />
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<a href="http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.buzzfeed.com%2F&h=2AQFMe4EGAQH8spcyAPLIcoY_eN1gb4Kb_BmToH14VK452g&s=1" rel="nofollow nofollow" style="color: #3b5998; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">www.buzzfeed.com</a><br />
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You started your life in the womb. And you won't believe your eyes when you see these incredible images of human development before birth!</div>
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<span style="color: black; font-family: Times; font-size: small; line-height: normal;"> The end. No more responses from "Julieta" or "Eric".</span></div>
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Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7668712860846217013.post-48943869835694072322014-07-20T14:14:00.001-06:002014-07-20T14:14:45.507-06:00Oh, the memory of a 3-year-oldIt only took me a year to upload this one. During our road trip to the Midwest last summer we listened to "Oh the Places You'll Go" by Dr. Seuss several times. A couple weeks later, John Paul picked up the book and "read" the whole thing. The mind of a 3-year-old is amazing!<br />
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<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="284" mozallowfullscreen="" src="//player.vimeo.com/video/98505488" webkitallowfullscreen="" width="504"></iframe> <br />
<a href="http://vimeo.com/98505488">Oh the Places You'll Go</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user21758224">Domestic Church Militant</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com/">Vimeo</a>.Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7668712860846217013.post-36737884013984946282014-07-14T22:00:00.000-06:002014-07-31T22:36:13.574-06:00Finding Meaning: An Intro to JP2's Theology of the BodyThis is an intro talk I gave recently at a high school <i>Theology of the Body</i> retreat. The audio quality isn't the best, so my working copy of the talk is below.<br />
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<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="284" mozallowfullscreen="" src="//player.vimeo.com/video/99945544" webkitallowfullscreen="" width="504"></iframe> <br />
<a href="http://vimeo.com/99945544">Finding Meaning: An Intro to JP2's Theology of the Body</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user21758224">Domestic Church Militant</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com/">Vimeo</a>.<br />
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I'm going to start with a video clip from an old sitcom called <i>Everybody Loves Raymond</i>.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>In it, a young daughter in the family starts asking some very deep questions about life, and you'll see how the family reacts.<o:p></o:p><br />
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“Religious scholars spend their entire lives trying to answer this question.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>You're not going to just flip open the Bible and find the meaning of life.” Did you catch that?<o:p></o:p></div>
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So a little girl starts asking about the meaning of our existence and the family freaks out.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Do you think this family's reaction to this question is typical in today's society?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I'd say so.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>People tend to think that this is an impossible question to answer.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But is it?<o:p></o:p></div>
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Has every person in the history of the world, at some point, wondered why he or she exists?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Is it natural for us to wonder about this?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>If an 8-year-old can randomly come up with this question out of nowhere, then yes, I think it's safe to say that the wonder has been imbedded inside of us by our Creator.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>It's natural.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><o:p></o:p></div>
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The family seems to recognize this in these clips.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>They recognize that “God made us smart enough to know there is a meaning of life.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>That's what makes us different than the fruit fly.”<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>God imbedded the wonder; therefore, there must be an answer.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But they also seem to conclude that we aren't smart enough to figure it out.<o:p></o:p></div>
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Let's think about that conclusion.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>God created a world with meaning.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>He created humans to wonder about this meaning.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But he doesn't allow us to figure out the meaning of our existence or bother to reveal this meaning?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Does that make any sense?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Is that a rational God?<o:p></o:p></div>
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The truth is, God has indeed revealed the answer, in many ways.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But before we explore that revelation, one more quick question:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Does the answer matter?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Who am I?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Why am I here?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>What happens when I die?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>What is the meaning of my existence?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Some people have the attitude:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Eh, those are tough questions.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>We can't ever really know for certain, so why bother searching?<o:p></o:p></div>
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But when does certainty matter?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I really wonder why God made mosquitoes, but whether or not I find the answer doesn't really matter much to me.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>When I'm buying food for my niece, I really wonder if it has peanuts.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>She's allergic.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>At first we thought she might just break out with a rash if she ate them.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>So if I were to take her to lunch, I might ask the person taking my order if her food has peanuts and be fine with the level of certainty provided.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But come to find out, peanuts have potentially fatal consequences for my niece.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>So now, if we go to lunch, just asking the cashier is not enough.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I might ask to see a list of ingredients, talk to the chef, etc.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Why?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Much more is at stake, so a much higher degree of certainty is necessary.<o:p></o:p></div>
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So in these big questions about the meaning of life, what's at stake?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Everything?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Eternity?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The stakes couldn't be higher!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>So does it make sense to just blow off this question and risk missing the very meaning of our existence?<o:p></o:p></div>
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<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiEt88WkjqA9Eqt7Z-nGQAe3J4G3mae1Vd351PHZOMy1oHhsCgnKExMKJCMYsGO-4y_2hckCj-skWlKdzYbeH-uihdVuNp4MCSeZixoWMAPO53vgrgDITtnn_6T_dOzR6YOF1n9kQXNG_ES/s1600/cardinals.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiEt88WkjqA9Eqt7Z-nGQAe3J4G3mae1Vd351PHZOMy1oHhsCgnKExMKJCMYsGO-4y_2hckCj-skWlKdzYbeH-uihdVuNp4MCSeZixoWMAPO53vgrgDITtnn_6T_dOzR6YOF1n9kQXNG_ES/s1600/cardinals.JPG" height="200" width="150" /></a></div>
So where do we look for the answer?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>What is the meaning of being human?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Well, I think the first place to look to find the meaning of anything is to examine both the created object and its maker... to examine both the creature and the creator... because knowing one reveals something about the other.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>For example, take a look at this creature here.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><br />
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You might wonder, what's this “C” on his hat, why does he have red birds on his diaper.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Well, you might say that this boy is made in the image of his father, yours truly, so knowing something about me could help us to answer these questions.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>If you learn that I'm from Chicago and a fan of the Cubs and not particularly fond of the St. Louis Cardinals... that might help explain the hat and the Cardinals diaper.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Knowing something about the father, reveals something about the son.<o:p></o:p></div>
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<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjJ16GkSBmhOYX9Tun3qt5FslEOY5I8PKjzBuWkX5wbh2hI8Hhns7asD1bP02sOOJI1B6chbk5YXwQ_JCb4BYEqGIAiwYxZWVqrvON9GmxEni08v4XejEG_DH-vlqGoSDlNblXFs6BqdGEj/s1600/DSC02071.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjJ16GkSBmhOYX9Tun3qt5FslEOY5I8PKjzBuWkX5wbh2hI8Hhns7asD1bP02sOOJI1B6chbk5YXwQ_JCb4BYEqGIAiwYxZWVqrvON9GmxEni08v4XejEG_DH-vlqGoSDlNblXFs6BqdGEj/s1600/DSC02071.JPG" height="150" width="200" /></a></div>
Here's another example.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>If you take a look at this created object... it's probably safe to say that it wasn't created by a random explosion of wood and nails.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>It must have had a maker, in fact, more than one maker, because one person couldn't make it alone.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But if you were to examine it closely, you could probably figure out that its makers were not professionals.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Knowing something about this deck, reveals something about its makers.<o:p></o:p><br />
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If you were to see a picture of its makers, perhaps you might say a “trinity” of makers, so to speak... it probably wouldn't take long to figure out that one of them must have known what he was doing, for we see the sturdy, level (for the most part) result. One of these maker's role was to just provide some muscle... it should be obvious who that was. And if you were to see the random spots of concrete on the ground, <i>kind of</i> near the footings for the posts, you could figure out that one of these makers was really no help at all. He really just got in the way. (Please don't tell him I said that.) So knowing something about the makers also reveals something about this deck. You might say, this deck is made in the image of its makers.<br />
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And this helps us understand the thesis of the great work now known as the <i>Theology of the Body</i>.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>A young Polish Cardinal (that's a Bishop, not a baseball player) named Karol Wojtyla wrote this masterpiece in the 1970s.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>And just before he was about publish it in 1978, he unexpectedly became the Bishop of Rome and picked the name Pope John Paul II.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Now, St. John Paul the Great knew that he could not release this 500-page manifesto as his first Papal writing, so he decided to use his Wednesday Audiences to teach it.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>So over the next 5 years, he slowly but surely, gave us his <i>Theology of the Body</i> in speech form.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>And now we have the translations in book form, and it is God's answer to the destructive sexual revolution of the 60s.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>It is transforming countless lives.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>It changed my life, and it is the reason my firstborn son is named John Paul.<o:p></o:p></div>
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The <i>Theology of the Body</i> is a study of God (that's theology) and the meaning of our existence.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>St. John Paul's thesis is this, in a nutshell:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><b>the body is sacramental</b>.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>When something is sacramental, it makes visible the invisible.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>So in this case, the human body, made male and female, makes visible an invisible God.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Knowing the human person, reveals something about our Creator, and thus the meaning of our existence, since the maker embeds meaning into His creatures.<o:p></o:p></div>
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So a little thought experiment here:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>if aliens discovered humanity and studied us in secret, what would they conclude?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Well, they would figure out quickly that we are different from the fruit fly or even the dog or the ape.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>That's obvious.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But if they studied a male body, while he was in the shower... in a non-creepy, scientific alien medical research kind-of-way, of course... it would make absolutely no sense... until they discovered the female body.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Only then, seeing both male and female, would it all make sense.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Only then would these visible signs point to some invisible realities.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><o:p></o:p></div>
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The aliens would figure out 4 things:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>we are made for relationship.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>We are made to form a community or a communion of persons.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>We are made for interpersonal union.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><br />
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Just a quick example of this one.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>My son Kolbe has these kissable, chubby cheeks.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>And when my wife brought him to school one day, one of my students said, “Mr. O'Connor, his cheeks... I just want to eat him up!”<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Have you ever heard this expression?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Of course, she didn't want to marinate him in bbq sauce and throw him on the grill.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But that expression shows a deep desire for interpersonal union, a desire for oneness with beauty and goodness.<o:p></o:p></div>
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Finally, the aliens would easily discover that we are made for love.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>You'll hear much more about these 4 things as the week goes on, but what to do they reveal about our Creator?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Could it be, that God Himself, is a relationship?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Could God be a communion of persons?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>An interpersonal union?<o:p></o:p></div>
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In the creation story, Genesis chapter one, God says, “Let <i>us</i> make man in <i>our</i> image?”<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>There's only one God, right?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>So why does he already use the pronouns “us” and “our”?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Is he already hinting at the fact that God is a Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit)?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>One God, but a communion of 3 persons?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>And when one of those persons, the Son, became flesh, and dwelt among us, he ordained 12 original bishops.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>One of those original bishops, John, teaches us in his first letter, Chapter 4, “<u>God <i>is</i> love</u>.”<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But let's think about that, in order to have love, we must have a person who does the loving (a lover), we must also have a person whom is loved (the beloved), and only then can we speak of the love between them.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The Father pours out Himself in self-giving love to the Son, the Son receives and reciprocates that love, and this love between them is so powerful that it creates a third person.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>In order for God to be love, He must be a Trinity!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Think about it, the Muslims are consistent with this.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>They don't believe God is a Trinity, and they don't believe he is love.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>They have 99 names for God and not one of them is Love!<o:p></o:p></div>
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So what is the meaning of life?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>In the video, if only the grandma would've picked up the Catechism off the shelf, because paragraph ONE gives us the answer:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>God created us to show forth his goodness and to share with us his everlasting happiness (or blessedness) in heaven.<o:p></o:p></div>
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My favorite paragraph in the Catechism (#221) expands upon this beautifully.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>God himself is an eternal exchange of love, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and he has destined us to share in that exchange.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Whoa!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>How will we share in that eternal exchange of love?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Through the Son.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>When?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>In heaven, of course, but can we have a foretaste of that exchange here on earth?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Yes!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>How?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>2 ways:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>through the Mass (but that's another talk).<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>And through authentic self-giving love. That's how we train for our destiny.<o:p></o:p></div>
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Back to the original video clip from <i>Everybody Loves Raymond</i>. Why did God make us? To show forth his goodness and share with us his everlasting happiness in heaven. If only the grandma would've gone to a <i>Theology of the Body </i>retreat in high school, she would have seen the first chapter of Genesis and remembered that we find meaning by being made in the image of the Trinity.<br />
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Better yet, if only Raymond's family would have known the great <i>Shema</i> prayer, they wouldn't have had this problem in the first place, because they would have taught the answer to their children already. It comes a few books later, Deuteronomy chapter 6: “Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord alone! Therefore, you shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength. Take to heart these words which I enjoin on you today. Drill them into your children.”</div>
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<i><b><u>Love</u></b></i> with all your heart, soul, and strength.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>There's the answer.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Their 8-year-old wouldn't have been asking those questions if they had drilled the answers into her when she was 2 or 3 years old. Like this...<br />
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<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="284" mozallowfullscreen="" src="//player.vimeo.com/video/98503753" webkitallowfullscreen="" width="504"></iframe> <br />
<a href="http://vimeo.com/98503753">Lord Baltimore</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user21758224">Domestic Church Militant</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com/">Vimeo</a>.Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7668712860846217013.post-34651270737060580362014-07-12T22:03:00.000-06:002014-07-12T22:03:39.146-06:00Beautiful BasketballI will definitely be showing this video to any future teams that I coach. The Spurs play the game the way it is meant to be played. The sports-radio guys always yawn and complain about the prospect of another NBA Finals including the Spurs, and I just don't get it. What's not to like about this team?<br />
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<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="284" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/aPaH44ISY20?rel=0" width="504"></iframe><br />Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7668712860846217013.post-4908298723240783292014-07-04T10:53:00.000-06:002014-07-04T10:53:34.953-06:00A Calling?<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjFgqtgTm6fF8CrXuoETHotv4sqd-bdXFYfDD76kFfhuAZFa_kXUN2e-FQ1nnjvmEb-kNQoQbzH0sR3u3BsRbnz3OPlPT0KeUncmnq_KAp1f90TLCsywaVwTT_-NQOzWFsT1kE4X_Eb55ba/s1600/IMG_20140703_164847505.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjFgqtgTm6fF8CrXuoETHotv4sqd-bdXFYfDD76kFfhuAZFa_kXUN2e-FQ1nnjvmEb-kNQoQbzH0sR3u3BsRbnz3OPlPT0KeUncmnq_KAp1f90TLCsywaVwTT_-NQOzWFsT1kE4X_Eb55ba/s1600/IMG_20140703_164847505.jpg" height="225" width="400" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Well, with all the knee injuries maybe Derek Rose is called to be a priest... <br />and concelebrate Mass with <a href="http://wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/blogs/kathyschiffer/files/2014/06/Holy-Goalie.jpg" target="_blank">Bishop Paprocki</a>?</span></td></tr>
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<br />Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7668712860846217013.post-8558378343703781842014-07-01T15:29:00.001-06:002014-07-01T15:29:16.586-06:00The Big Picture: LoveThe mainstream media would like to have us believe that Pope Francis is changing the Church's teachings on homosexuality, contraception, sin, hell, male-only ordination, etc. etc. etc. That he somehow represents a "break from his predecessors." <br />
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Of course, if you know anything about the Catholic Church, her teachings, Jorge Bergoglio, his current office in the Chair of St. Peter, his authority (or lack thereof), or what the man <i>actually</i> says/writes, you know how utterly laughable such a notion is. <br />
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Many have been anxious to take some of our Holy Father's words out of context, when all he's asking us to do is to keep the truth about morality <i>in context</i>. Chris Stefanick of <a href="http://reallifecatholic.com/home">Real Life Catholic</a> breaks it down:<br />
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<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="284" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/TloQAAFOuAo?rel=0" width="504"></iframe>Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7668712860846217013.post-55563455311708051192014-06-27T07:30:00.000-06:002014-07-10T21:54:10.904-06:00Eucharist or Communion Debate Part 2<br />
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Here is Part 2 of a Baptist pastor's symbolic interpretation Holy Communion. (<a href="http://domesticchurchmilitant.blogspot.com/2014/06/eucharist-or-communion-debate-part-i.html">Part 1 is here</a>.) My responses are in <span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: red;">red</span>. <br />
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I have not received a response from this pastor or my friend who sent it to me about a year ago. All responses are most welcome!<br />
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<b>The Eucharist or Communion - Part 2 -- body & blood or “in remembrance of”</b></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #500050;">Pastor </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: red;">[of a Baptist community in]</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #500050;"> OH</span></span></b></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Now let’s go in the offense</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">The Last Supper was the Passover meal (Sader) Passover in Exo 12</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> The bread is Matzah bread and it’s eaten at the end of the meal as desert</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> Then Jesus gives them the 3rd cup - the cup of redemption -- He is our redeemer</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> The meal is a lamb without spot or blemish. <span style="color: #cc0000;">So where was the lamb at the Last Supper????? It wasn't there. Or was it? Jesus is the lamb!</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Many times Jesus is called the Lamb of God</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">READ Jn 1:29,36</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">27 times in the Book of Revelation Jesus is referred to as the Lamb</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">The lamb in the Passover meal represents Jesus.</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">The breed and cup represent what he did for us on the cross to pay our sin debt in full.</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span>First, let’s look at the “cup”</div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">READ -- Mat 26:26-29</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Catholics will stop after verse 28. <span style="color: #cc0000;">Not quite. V29 is very important, showing that Jesus purposely did not intend to drink the 4th cup of wine (cup of consummation) until the Kingdom is made new on the cross. He asks his Father to let this "cup" pass from Him, but submits to His Father's will. He asks for the 4th Cup from the cross: "I thirst." Then after he drinks it He says, "It is finished." What is finished? The Old Covenant is finished, and the New Covenant is established, sealed by His blood. What else is finished? The Passover meal he began the night before!</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Notice</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">: He didn’t put out his forearm and say “Take a bite”. He gave them bread. It’s obviously that he was not speaking literally because He still literal had His body and blood. He was showing them the symbolism in the Passover meal. <span style="color: #cc0000;">If it's symbolism, why didn't he take a lamb and say "this represents me"? Why bread? Notably, there was no lamb present, because He is the lamb.... So you think Jesus couldn't be sitting there with his literal body and blood and at the same time give it to the Apostles under the appearance of bread and wine? Really? Kind of like he couldn't walk on water, he couldn't multiply loaves and fishes, he couldn't cure the sick, or he couldn't rise from the dead? He's God! Now you are saying some things are impossible for him to do?</span></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Q:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> In verse 29 it’s still the “fruit of the vine” not his blood. Where is Transubstantiation? <span style="color: #cc0000;">It already occurred at the 3rd Cup. In verse 28 he says it IS His blood, then he even describes that blood (lest anyone doubt) as the blood which is "poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins". So you tell me: did he pour out His literal blood or His metaphorical blood? If the Eucharist is figurative, then the Crucifixion was figurative.</span></span></div>
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<span style="color: #cc0000;">The "fruit of the vine" refers to that 4th cup of wine that he skipped at that time. They went to the garden to pray after singing the Great Hallel (Mk 14:26). </span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">READ -- Mk 14:22-25 (Lk 22:14-20)</span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Q:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> In verse 25 again, it’s still the “fruit of the vine” not his blood. Where is Transubstantiation?</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span style="color: #cc0000;">Again, transubstantiation occurred in the 3rd Cup. The "fruit of the vine" he won't drink then refers to the 4th Cup of wine.</span> </span></div>
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The other side may bring up 1Cor 10:16-17</div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">READ -- 1Cor 10:16-17 -- Communion means fellowship or partnership It does not consumption <span style="color: #cc0000;">Paul is speaking of Eucharistic communion. If he is not speaking of a literal body and blood of Christ, then why does he later warn against eating and drinking a judgment upon oneself if receiving in an unworthy manner (1Cor 11:27-29)? How can this be a sacrilege and bring self-condemnation if he's speaking of merely a symbolic body and blood?</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Now, let’s look at the bread.</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">READ -- 1Cor 11:23-30</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">23 -- Paul got this directly from Jesus -- in Arabia 3 years. Some say on Mt. Sinai (Gal 1:17-18)</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">24 -- “do this in remembrance of me” Jesus did not say because it is Me <span style="color: #cc0000;">Huh? Yes he did: "This is my body which is for you" (v24). Again, he refers to his literal body which will be offered for us on the cross.</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">25 -- “in remembrance of me” Again, Jesus did not say because it is Me <span style="color: #cc0000;">"This chalice <b>is</b> the new covenant in my blood."???</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> Luke also has “in remembrance of me” in his account of the Last Supper in Lk 22:19.</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> We have these 3 references. Jesus is saying He would not physically be there.</span></div>
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<span style="color: #cc0000;"><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">The words "</span><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">in</span><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"> </span><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">remembrance</span><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">" lose something </span><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">in</span><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"> translation. </span><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">In</span><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"> the</span></span><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><span style="color: #cc0000;"> original greek it's <i>anamnesis</i>. It does not mean a mere intellectual memorial, but rather <b>"to make present once again"</b>... just as the Passover meal made the Exodus present once again (see Ex 13:8). Therefore, the Eucharist is not only a meal but also a re-presentation of Christ's one true sacrifice on Calvary, and the manner by which we participate in our own "exodus" from slavery to sin. </span> </span> </div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">We have Him here today spiritually <span style="color: #cc0000;">(yes)</span> buy not physically <span style="color: #cc0000;">(yes we do, sacramentally)</span>. The Bible says where ever 2 or 3 are gathered in my name, There I am there also. <span style="color: #cc0000;">Yes, spiritually.</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">26-28 -- 3 times it’s still bread</span></div>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">27 -- Paul give you a contrast between the bread and cup and the body and blood of Christ. He’s showing you that they aren’t the same <span style="color: #cc0000;">Huh? See above. How can you profane the Lord by eating and drinking something that is merely bread and wine?</span></span><br />
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<b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Q: </span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Show me where Transubstantiation occurs? <span style="color: #cc0000;">It occurs when Jesus says "This is my body... this is my blood." When God speaks, by his Word it is so!</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> Mat 26:26-29 -- “this <u>fruit of the vine</u>” not “My blood” in Verse 29 <span style="color: #cc0000;">Refers to the 4th cup of wine, not the transubstantiated 3rd cup.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> Mk 14:22-25 -- “the <u>fruit of the vine</u>” not “My blood” in verse 25 <span style="color: #cc0000;">See above.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> 1Cor 10:17 -- “one bread” twice <span style="color: #cc0000;">"Bread" refers to the Eucharistic bread.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> 1Cor 11:23-28 - <u>bread</u> and cup three times <u>not body</u> and cup or <u>body and blood</u> in verses 26,27 & 28 <span style="color: #cc0000;">See above.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Also, lets go to the early Church history Acts and see how they referred to it</span><br />
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">If you had Transubstantiation all the way back to Jesus, surely the term would have been established during this time and written in the book of Acts.</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">READ -- Acts 2:42,46 - called “breaking <u>bread</u>” not “breaking the body” -- Where is Transubstantiation?</span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">READ -- Acts 20:7,11 - called “breaking <u>bread</u>” not “breaking the body” -- Where is Transubstantiation?</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span style="color: #cc0000;">"Breaking of the bread" refers to the celebration of the Eucharist/Mass. The "breaking of the bread" and words of consecration spoken, in "Persona Christi" by a priest, bring about transubstantiation.</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Some Catholics will say “They’re talking about a meal” <span style="color: #cc0000;">Yes, it's both a meal and a sacrifice.</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> Meals in the KJV are referred to as “at meat” so we’re talking about communion</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> They called it breaking bread -- not breaking body <span style="color: #cc0000;">Look at the formula always followed by Jesus... "took... blessed... broke... and gave"... which all occurred, including the "breaking", before transubstantiation took place at His words of consecration.</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">There is no Biblical proof of Transubstantiation <span style="color: #cc0000;">Oh, there's plenty, in the OT and NT. It takes an anti-Catholic predisposition in order to deny it. Have you ever read the Church Fathers? Men who learned directly from the Apostles? As I said in Part 1, it's difficult to take seriously anyone who so grossly misrepresents historical facts. Claiming that the early Church didn't believe in the Real Presence is not an honest option.</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Those on the outer side are taught that Jesus is a “Perpetual Sacrifice” The word “perpetual” means continuing forever or everlasting</span></div>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Jn 19:30 -- Jesus said “It is finished” <span style="color: #cc0000;">The old covenant and the Passover meal started the night before are finished.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Let’s go to Hebrews and notice the words “once” and “one”</span></div>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">READ -- Heb 7:27 -- “This He did once, when he offer up Himself” <span style="color: #cc0000;">Yes</span>.</span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">READ -- Heb 9:12 -- “by His own blood he entered in <u>once</u> into the holy place, having obtain<u>ed</u> eternal redemption for us.” <span style="color: #cc0000;">True</span>.</span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">READ -- Heb 9:26 -- “<u>once</u> in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself” <span style="color: #cc0000;">Yes</span>.</span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">READ -- Heb 9:28 -- “So Christ was <u>once</u> offered to bear the sins of many <span style="color: #cc0000;">Yes</span>.</span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">READ -- Heb 10:10-12 <span style="color: #cc0000;">Ok</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">READ -- Heb 10:14 -- “For by one offering, He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.” <span style="color: #cc0000;">Yes</span>.</span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">READ -- Heb 10:18 -- “there is no more offering for sin” <span style="color: #cc0000;">Right</span>.</span><br />
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<span style="color: #cc0000;">These verses speak of the daily sacrifices offered by Levitical priests every morning and evening (Num 28:1-8) and the annual sacrifices of the Day of Atonement, which the high priest offered for the sins of Israel, including his own (Lev 16:11-19). This is in contrast to Christ, who offered only one sacrifice, and that for his people and not for himself. The former sacrifices are no longer needed. Jesus establishes a new and eternal priesthood in the order of Melchizedek (mentioned 5 times in Hebrews). Jesus ordains His Apostles at the Last Supper ("do this..." i.e., make present again the sacrifice of my body/blood... see above) and again after the Resurrection ("As the Father has sent me, even so I send you" Jn 20:21). And the Apostles ordained others into this priesthood (see Acts 1 - Matthias replaces Judas, Acts 6:6, 13:3, 14:22, 20:28; 1Tim 4:14; 2Tim 1:6; Tit 1:5). </span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Jesus is not a “Perpetual Sacrifice” <span style="color: #cc0000;">He's not? What does John see in heaven? "I saw a Lamb standing as though it had been slain" (Rev 5:6). Christ does indeed appear forever as a sacrificial victim perpetually offering Himself in heaven. What makes this perpetual sacrifice present to us? The Mass/Eucharist!! </span>-- He’s a “Perpetual Saviour”</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">What he did 2000 years ago allows us to be saved today.</span><br />
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Jesus won’t do it again.</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Heb 10:18 -- “there is no more offering for sin”</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Heb 6:4-6 -- will “put Him to an open shame”</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Heb 10:26 -- “there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin”<u></u></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Jn 19:30 -- Jesus said “It is finished”</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">They tell you to listen to them. <span style="color: #cc0000;">No, God in Scripture and Jesus Christ Himself tells you to listen to His Church, "the pillar and foundation of truth."</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">I’m asking you to humble yourselves, let the Holy Spirit be your teacher and read the Bible for yourselves. <span style="color: #cc0000;">I have. </span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Here in America, we still have that right. God is going to hold you accountable for you, not your priests and not us pastors.</span></div>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Do not read with the attitude “I know what I want to believe.” because that will defeat the purpose.</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Start with the attitude “God, I want to know Your truth.” <span style="color: #cc0000;">Been there, done that. Left the Church (spiritually) in college, put all things on the table, and the Holy Spirit led me right back to the one, true, apostolic Church.</span></span></div>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #222222;">I can tell you from personal experience, the Holy Spirit will put you on a spiritual growth plan that will amaze you. </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: red;">Do y</span><span style="color: red;">ou know when I've experienced spiritual growth that has amazed me? When I started going to Mass and receiving the Eucharist daily and furthermore, when I started spending one holy hour with our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament at least once per week.... not to mention meeting His mercy in the confessional at least once per month.</span></span><br />
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Other verses not used<br />
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span><b><u><span style="font-size: 10pt;">PRIESTS - DON’T DRINK WINE -- (YEAST = SIN)</span></u></b><br />
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Lev 10:9 Eze 44:21 Pro 23:30-32</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span><b><u><span style="font-size: 10pt;">CONCLUSION</span></u></b></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">1Cor 2:12-16 2Cor 4:3-4 1Jn 4:6</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span><b><u><span style="font-size: 10pt;">To symbolically eat & drink one’s body & blood = assault</span></u></b></div>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span>Ps 14:4<br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> Isa 9:18-20;49:26</span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> Mic 3:3</span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> 2Sam 23:15-17</span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> Rev 17:6,16<b></b></span><br />
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<b><u><span style="font-size: 10pt;">“SOUL” and “DIVINITY”</span></u></b><br />
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">When we are born again & receive the Holy Spirit - not by baptism or the Eucharist</span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> Soul is your mind, essence, personality - Is 55:8-9</span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <wbr></wbr> Divinity = God - Is 45:5,21; 46:9</span><br />
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<b><u><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></u></b><b><u>EUCHARIST OR COMMUNION</u></b></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">This is a list of questions I made up for a Catholic friend to explain why I don’t accept the “Eucharist” as opposed to “Communion”. I told him he could check with anyone he wanted to get the answers including the Vatican. He sent this to Catholic Answers in November, 2002. In 2004, he sent it again. He still has not received a reply. <span style="color: #cc0000;">No disrespect, but I got a chuckle out of this assertion that the staff at <a href="http://www.catholic.com/" target="_blank">Catholic Answers</a> (or the Vatican!) was stumped by this, when it's no different than anything they answer on their radio show every day!</span></span></div>
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Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7668712860846217013.post-71645166455586904292014-06-25T07:00:00.000-06:002014-07-03T13:35:13.060-06:00Eucharist or Communion? A Debate (Part I)<br />
Sticking with the Corpus Christi theme this week, I thought I'd post a bit of a debate I had regarding the Eucharist. A Protestant friend I met while praying outside Planned Parenthood sent me this two-part "dissertation" by a Baptist pastor from Ohio. In it, he uses Scripture in an attempt to discredit the Catholic belief in the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist.<br />
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He claims his defense is unanswerable, but I gave it a shot anyway. Below is Part 1. My responses are in <span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: red;">red</span>.<br />
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<b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">The Eucharist or Communion Part 1 -- body & blood or “in remembrance of”</span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">Pastor </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: red;">[of a Baptist community in]</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> OH</span></span></b></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">The title of this message is “<b>The Eucharist or Communion</b>” it can also be subtitled “Is it the body & blood of Christ or in remembrance of”</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">I’ll be showing you what God says in the Bible on this subject. I’ll be giving you a lot of scripture references so you will need paper and pen or pencil.</span></span></div>
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<span style="color: #cc0000;">So you believe the Bible is God-breathed? Great, so do I! But why? Let's take the New Testament. I assume you believe Scripture contains 27 books, no more, no less. Why? There were hundreds of early Christian writings/letters? Why these 27? I accept these books as Scriptural because the authority of the Catholic Church declared them so in AD 382. You find yourself in a conundrum: you accept these books as inspired, but then claim to reject the only authority that declared them so. What gives? </span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">We obviously believe that we have communion in remembrance of what Jesus did on the cross to pay our full sin debt to God the Father</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">On the other side, you have the Roman Catholics, Episcopals (Anglican/Church of England), Eastern Orthodox religions (Greek, Russian, etc.)</span></span></div>
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">They believe in Transubstantiation - that the elements become the body & blood of Christ<b></b></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> Transubstantiation was defined by Pope Innocent III in the year 1215</span></span></div>
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<span style="color: #cc0000;">Now here's a typical anti-Catholic game of deception. (Of course, perhaps this is an honest misconception of history on the part of Pastor -------- and the intent to deceive lies with his teacher(s), but either way, it calls into question his crediblity.) You present a truth here regarding the Fourth Lateran Council in 1215, but make it seem as if transubstantiation was invented at that point in time. FALSE. The belief in Christ's real presence in the Eucharist goes back to the beginning with the Apostles and Christ Himself (see below). In 1215, it was seen that the doctrine needed more precise terminology. Hence, "transubstantiation" was chosen. The <i>terminology</i> was new, but certainly not the doctrine. I know you twist and turn your way through a denial of the literal language in Scripture, but belief in the Eucharist by the men who learned from the Apostles and beyond in undeniable. There are hundreds of quotes from hundreds of years, but I'll just give you one: <i>"</i><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><i>Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes"</i> (<em>Letter to the Smyrnaeans </em>6:2–7:1 [A.D. 110]). And by the way, from whom did Ignatius of Antioch, the author of this quote, learn the faith? John the Apostle. So the apostle closest to Jesus misunderstood him, and you and others over 1500 years later finally figured it out?</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #500050;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">Adoration of the Wafer (or the host as they put it) was decreed by Pope Honorius III in the year 1220</span></span></div>
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<span style="color: #cc0000;">So the disciplinary practice of Eucharistic Adoration came about around this time, so what? This says nothing about the Church "inventing" the Real Presence. </span> </div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #222222;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">Notice that it does not go all the way back to Christ or the Apostles </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #222222;"> </span><span style="color: red;">Notice what, your slight of hand?</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #500050;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">The Eucharist is a huge deal in these Churches -- especially the Roman Catholic Church. </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">Lutherans<b> - </b>consubstantiation - That the body and blood of Christ, and the bread and wine, coexist in union with each other. That started sometime after Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses to the Church door on Oct. 31st, 1517</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Times; font-size: small;"> </span></div>
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">Now, just because I, as a pastor, says it’s one way or your priest says it’s another way doesn’t make either of us right.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #222222;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #222222;"><span style="color: #cc0000;">Agreed. There are many misinterpretations out there (including by priests), and that's why Jesus gave us the Rock of the Papacy - the "al-bayit" or prime minister of the re-established Kingdom of David - who holds the keys of authority to speak and act for the king (compare Matt 16:18-19 with Isaiah 22:22-23; the Apostles knew exactly what Jesus was saying and doing).</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">The question I pose to you today is this. If you were challenged to defend your position, could you do it from a Biblical perspective?</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #222222;"> </span><span style="color: red;">Yes. I also know the Bible itself says the pillar and foundation of truth is NOT the Bible - it's the CHURCH. (see 1Tim. 3:15)</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">Do you know what verses to use <u>in context</u> with a proper commentary on each verse so that you can defend God’s position?</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #222222;"> </span><span style="color: red;">Yes, do you... <u>in context</u>?</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">This is a two fold message. First, it’s to teach those on our side of this issue how to defend our position using our verses and giving answers to verses used by the other side. It doesn’t do any good to defend your position unless you can refute all of the points made by the other side. Second, if you’re listening to this and you believe the Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ, please consider this message as a response to what you have been taught. Any problems I my have with your side <u>are not</u> with the average person setting in the pews of your Churches. They are with the hierarchy of your denomination.</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">I hope you’ve got your pen and paper ready? Lets get started.</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">1Pet 3:15 (paraphrase) always be prepared to give a defense for your faith with meekness and fear - that’s a righteous fear of God.</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #222222;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">God has written us a love story in the Bible</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #222222;"> </span><span style="color: red;">(Yes!)</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #222222;"> - </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">all the answers are right here in this Book.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #222222;"> </span><span style="color: red;">No, actually it says the answers are in both Scripture AND Tradition (1Cor 11:2; 2Thess 2:15, 3:6) and everything Jesus said is NOT in Scripture (Jn 21:25). If you believe in <i>sola scriptura</i> (that "all matters of faith and morals are found in the Bible alone"), then <i>sola scriptura</i> must be taught by the Bible too, right? So where is it?</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #500050;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> You can’t be “perfect” meaning mature or “thoroughly furnished unto all good works” without it - 2Tim 3:16-17</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> God expects us to study His Word to show ourselves approved - 2Tim 2:15.</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #222222;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">That means studying the Bible with meekness and a righteous fear of God so the Holy Spirit can give us God’s answers to our questions.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #222222;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: red;">Yes, we should study Scripture - "ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ" (St. Jerome). But Scripture is NOT "a matter of personal interpretation" (2Pet 1:20), as "there are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction" (2Pet 3:15). We cannot fully understand without a guide, just like the Ethiopian eunuch needed (Acts 8:31).... So the Holy Spirit is now inspiring tens of thousands of different Christian "denominations" with vastly different answers to our questions? How is that possible? </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #222222;"> </span></span></div>
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span>2Cor 13:1 says “In the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses shall every word be established” - Not only every idea but every word. I will be giving you multiple Bible references that make the same points and rhetorical questions you can ask those on the other side.</span></div>
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span>We are going to go on the defense first. Both sides can’t be on the offense at the same time because it then becomes your verses against theirs. We need to knock down their foundation by showing them how their verses are out of context first and then invite them to do the same with our verses. We’ll get to the offense in Part 2.</span></div>
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span>We’re going to start with the Catholic’s favorite verses in Jn 6:53-57. There’s a lot in Jn 6. We will be spending all of Part 1 responding to these 5 verses.</span></div>
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span>READ -- Jn 6:53-57</span></div>
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span>What you will hear back from them may go something like this:</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">“You fundamentalist tell us not to take a verse out of context.. Here are 5 verses that say the same thing.</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">5 times Jesus says you’ve got to eat My body -- 4 times He says you’ve got to drink My blood - what part of that don’t you understand?</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">There is nothing more clear in the Bible than Jn 6:53-57 </span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">and/or they might say:</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">We’re the only Church started by Jesus Christ. We have an infallible Magisterium. The Catholic Church is never wrong!”</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">I‘ve had these answers in that tone of voice. Now, not everyone is that demeaning. But, if they are, ignore their attitude. Focus on the issue.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #222222;"> </span><span style="color: red;">Agreed, because I can tell you all about the attitudes and tones of voice from your side too.</span></span></div>
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<span style="color: #500050; font-size: 10pt;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">Back to the verses. If that’s all that was in the Bible, you know what, it’s checkmate, they’re right and we’re wrong - we don’t need to go any farther. Lucky for our side, God has more to say about it. I’ll be giving you 100 or more verses depending on how you want to count them.</span></div>
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span>The initial question is - Are those 5 verses in context or could they have been written as one because they are presenting the same thought?</span></div>
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></b><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Side note</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">: Please don’t call Catholics cannibals. You don’t get anywhere with insults. Instead, you can politely say “I’m know that I’m not a cannibal and I don’t believe you are either.” and let them defend cannibalism if they want to. So far, I’ve never had anyone do it.</span></span></div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span>You may feel the need to let them know that this will be a long explanation and you will be asking them questions as you go. If they want you to accept their explanation than they will have to answer your questions.</span><br />
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">Notice the word “and” verses 53, 54 & 56:</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">53 -- “Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man <u>AND</u> drink his blood, ye have no life in you”</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">54 -- “Whoso eateth my flesh <u>AND</u> drinketh my blood, hath eternal life”</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">56 -- “He that eateth my flesh <u>AND</u> drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him”</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">-- In 1414, the communion cup was forbidden to the laity by the Council of Constance - only the priests drink it</span></span></div>
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Q:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> Catholics, do you drink the cup? (most don’t) The implication here in vs 54, using their verses their way - literally, is that if you don’t drink the cup, you don’t have eternal life - You’re not going to Heaven.</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">Their answer: blood is in the flesh just like an uncooked steak. Response: Jesus said “drink” in all 3 of these verses.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #222222;"> </span><span style="color: red;">The body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ is present in one tiny piece of the consecrated bread or one drop of the consecrated wine. This distinction is irrelevant.</span></span></div>
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<span style="color: #222222; font-size: 10pt;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">-- The terms “eateth” and “drinketh” are both present tense participles, signifying that, if Jesus was talking literally, the disciples were to be eating His “flesh” and drinking His “blood” at that very time, and continue doing so. We don’t necessarily get that understanding in English because it’s lost in the translation. A literal rendition would read: “He who continues eating My flesh and drinking My blood?” The disciples were not eating and drinking our Savior’s flesh and blood then or ever </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: red;">Yes, they began doing so at the Last Supper. </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> Later, you will see that they didn’t understood what he was saying. This is the explanation why.</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">Now we start our response. I’m going to be giving you 7 things that Jesus says in 6 other verses. It shows that Jesus was talking spiritually not literally. But, I’ve got to go about it in a backwards way. Whenever you discuss the Bible with someone on the other side of any issue, you have to start with their verses or the other side will say that you’re avoiding the question. I always like to start at the beginning which, in this case would be verse 22. But, to satisfy them, we have to start in the middle and work outward in both directions. So, I’m going to start in vs 58 and then go back to verses 51-52 on the front side.</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">58 -- READ “not as your fathers did eat Manna and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever” <span style="color: #cc0000;">Yes, this bread is the new manna. In every other NT fulfillment of an OT prefigurement, the New is greater than the Old. But somehow you think the old manna is greater than the new? The old manna was miraculous, but the new manna is merely symbolic? </span> it’s all a metaphor. </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> It’s a different kind of bread. It’s not literal, it’s spiritual. </span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Q: </span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">(live forever) Can you show me anyone, not just a Catholic, that’s alive today who ate the body and blood of Christ 2000 yrs ago? <span style="color: #cc0000;">Yes, all the saints in heaven and purgatory.</span></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Q: </span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">What lives forever, your physical body or your spirit and soul? <span style="color: #cc0000;">Refers to supernatural life.</span> <span style="color: #cc0000;">Soul for now, body will rise after the Second Coming.</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">50 -- READ “eat thereof and <u>not die</u>”</span></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Q: </span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">What does not die, your physical body or your spirit and soul? <span style="color: #cc0000;">See above.</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">51 -- READ “live forever . . . life of the world” - He did it on the cross not in the Eucharist Jn 3:15-18 <span style="color: #cc0000;">He says this bread is his flesh, and even clarifies! ...the flesh that he gave "for the life of the world." So did he give his literal flesh or metaphorical flesh? Did he really shed blood on the cross or not?</span></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Q: </span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">What lives forever, your physical body or your spirit and soul? <span style="color: #cc0000;"> See above.</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">52 -- READ already confused <span style="color: #cc0000;">No</span> - why? We will be coming back to this question later.</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">Now we have book ends around their verses to show that Jesus was not talking literally.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">Let’s go back a little further.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">35 -- READ “I am the bread of life ... shall <u>never</u> hunger ... <u>believeth</u> on me shall <u>never</u> thirst” <span style="color: #cc0000;">The Bread of Life discourse is divided into 2 parts: v35-47 and v48-58. In this first half Jesus invites belief in Him. Notice the Jews didn't yet question why He calls Himself bread, but rather how He can claim to be from heaven (v42). </span></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Q: </span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Have you had to eat or drink since your “First Communion? <span style="color: #cc0000;">Have you had to eat or drink since you professed belief in Him? </span></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Q: </span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">So, was Jesus talking literally or spiritually? <span style="color: #cc0000;">In this first half he was talking about literal belief leading to salvation or literal supernatural life.</span></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Q: </span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Is belief a physical thing or a spiritual thing? <span style="color: #cc0000;">It's mental, then spiritual with Baptism (or vice versa in the case of baptized infants), then physical (with works of love demonstrating this belief).</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">48 -- READ “I am the bread of life”</span></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Q: </span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Was Jesus talking literally or spiritually? <span style="color: #cc0000;">Literally</span>. You have your definition in vs. 35. <span style="color: #cc0000;">No, in v35-47 He was speaking of belief (again, see the Jews reaction). Beginning in v48, that changes, and the literal is quite obvious to his audience, given their reaction. After they grumbled, he even switches his verb use from the common word for eating, "<i>esthio</i>" in the Greek, to almost a crude connotation, "<i>trogo</i>", meaning chew or gnaw, which he repeats 4 times (v54, 56, 57, and 58). If he were speaking metaphorically, his words would echo a Hebrew idiom where consuming flesh and blood refers to the brutalities of war (Deut 32:42; Ezk 39:17-18).</span></span></div>
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<span style="color: #cc0000;">These 2 halves of the discourse work in tandem, since without faith we can neither be united with Christ nor recognize his presence in the Eucharist. If eating is believing in v35-47, then believing leads to eating in v48-58. </span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">Now lets look at another verse after theirs.</span></span></div>
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span>63 -- READ “they are <u>spirit</u> and they are life”</span></div>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> Jn 6:63 - the words that I speak unto you, they are <u>spirit</u>, and they are life.</span></span></div>
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<span style="color: #cc0000;">This simply presents a contrast between the Spirit's ability to enlighten our minds (Jn 14:26) and human reason's inability to comprehend revealed truths apart from faith (Jn 8:15). </span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Q: </span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Isn’t Jesus saying that He’s talking to them “spiritually” not literally? <span style="color: #cc0000;">No, he's saying that faith, granted by the Spirit, will allow us to believe these hard sayings about literally eating his literal flesh, which gives literal supernatural life to the world.</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">These are the 7 things Jesus said spiritually, not literally, in 6 verses [35 (2x),48,50,51,58 & 63] and they didn’t understand.</span></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Q: </span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Do we agree that the people did not understand what Jesus was saying? <span style="color: #cc0000;">No, they understood perfectly, which is why they left him - they couldn't accept it! Peter and the Apostles believed Christ based on faith (saying basically, "Lord, if you say so!"), even though they couldn't wrap their heads around it yet.</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">You might get the response: Yes, and you’re the ones that are wrong. Jn 6:66 - The only place in the Bible where you have 666, You guys are Anti-Christ because you have walked away from the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Chapter and verse #’s were created by man, not God. <span style="color: #cc0000;">Agreed</span>.</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">You may want to go through these verses showing how the people didn’t understand what Jesus was saying:</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">READ Jn 6:41 - The Jews then murmured because he said I am the bread of life <span style="color: #cc0000;">No, here they murmured about the "came down from heaven" part, not the bread of life part. See v42.</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;">READ Jn 6:42 - how is it then that he saith I came down from Heaven? They should have understood from Dan 9:24-27... <span style="color: #cc0000;">but they obviously didn't.</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">READ Jn 6:52 - The people don’t understand and ask “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">READ Jn 6:60 - Many said this is an hard saying; who can hear it?</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">READ Jn 6:66 - From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">Now that I’ve pointed out the things to look for, lets read it all in context starting in verse 22</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> Notice 3 things from Jesus:</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> <wbr></wbr> His death on the cross to save the world</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> <wbr></wbr> Salvation by grace - the words “belief” and “believing”</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> <wbr></wbr> Eternal security in verses 37 - 40</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> The people’s response -- they’re confusion, they don’t understand & they leave</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span style="color: #cc0000;"> And why didn't Jesus call them back and say, "Hey, don't worry, I was only speaking figuratively"??? Because he meant what he said?</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">Chapter setup:</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> Feeding the 5000</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> Jesus walking on the water</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> The multitude comes to him</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">READ 6:22 - 71</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">The references to partaking of the Lord’s body and blood are figures of speech. Jesus is talking in metaphors.</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">Jesus is down to the 12 of them. There are two questions:</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> 1. Why did all the others leave.</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> 2. Is there any other Biblical proof that Jesus taught everyone, other than the 12, in parables so they couldn’t quite grasp what He was saying? <span style="color: #cc0000;">Jesus' parables using everyday life were clear enough; the underlying truths remained obscure only to the faithless.</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">Jesus had 3 ways of teaching:</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> To the Pharisees, He condemned them (Woe unto you, hypocrites, vipers in Mat 23:13-39)</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> To the people in parables</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> To the 12, He explained everything. sooner or later.</span></span><br />
<div style="margin-bottom: 6pt;">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span>Mat 13:10-17</span></div>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> vs. 10 - Why speakest thou unto them (the public) in <u>parables</u></span></span></div>
<div style="color: #222222;">
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> vs. 11 - because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven ... but to them it is<u>not</u> given. <span style="color: #cc0000;"> Exactly! This private instruction reflects Jesus' intention to arrange His Church hierarchically.</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #500050;"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">vs 13 - Therefore I speak to them in <u>parables</u> ... they seeing see <u>not</u>; and hearing they hear <u>not</u>, neither do they <u>understand</u></span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> vs 14 - Jesus quotes Elijah’s prophecy in Is 6:9 which he stated in vs 13</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> vs 15 - this people ... <u>dull</u> of hearing, and their eyes they have <u>closed</u></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">Mk 4:10-12</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> vs11 - Unto you it is given to know ... but unto them that are <u>without</u>, <u>all</u> these things are done in <u>parables</u></span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> vs 12 - seeing they may see, and <u>not perceive</u>; and hearing they may hear, and <u>not understand</u></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">Lk 8:9-10</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> vs 10 - Unto you it is given to know ... but to the others: ... seeing they might <u>not see</u>, and hearing might<u>not understand</u></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">Without a parable he taught them nothing</span></span></div>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> Mat 13:34-35 Mk 4:33-34</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span style="color: #cc0000;">So what does this have to do with John 6? What points to John 6 as a parable? It has none of the characteristics of a parable. Notice from where all your quotes about parables come: Matthew, Mark, and Luke. Why? <b>There are no parables in John!</b></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">There’s one question in Jn 6 left to answer “Why did all the others leave in verse 66?</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> They knew the Levitical Law</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> It was because He said they had to drink His blood. That violated the Law.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">The other side will say “That’s talking about animal blood . We’re talking about God’s blood.”</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> Jesus put on human flesh so we are actually talking about human blood.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">It’s true that there are verses about animal blood in the OT</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> Gen 9:3-4</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> Lev 3:17 -- 6:30</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> Deu 12:15-16,22-25</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> Deu 15:22-23</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> 1Sam 14:32-33</span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">But, there are 3 places that reference “any manner (kind) of blood”. I’m going to read the most important on last.</span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">READ -- Lev 7:26-27 This is the one commentaries usually refer to.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">READ -- Lev 19:26</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">READ -- Lev 17:10-14</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> <wbr></wbr> Lev 17:10-12 - to make an atonement for your soul</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;"> <wbr></wbr> Lev 17:14 - Ye shall eat the blood of <u>no</u> manner (kind) of flesh.</span></span></div>
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<span style="color: #cc0000;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> Yes, drinking the blood of animals is forbidden under the Old Covenant. To do so is to consume "life" that is merely natural and of a lower order than human life. Jesus' injunction to drink his blood does not fall under these prohibitions. The "life" he imparts is not natural but supernatural; it does not pull us down to the level of animals; it elevates us to become sharers in his divine nature (2Pet 1:4).</span><span style="font-size: 13px;"> </span></span> </div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">ALL FLESH</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> -- 1Cor 15:38-39 </span><span style="font-size: 13px;"><span style="color: #cc0000;">Here, Paul is illustrating<b> </b>the different gradations of glory that will characterize the bodies of risen believers. So I don't see the connection to the following line of questioning.</span></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Q: </span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Does Jesus have a “kind” of blood? <span style="color: #cc0000;">Sure, so?</span></span></div>
<b style="color: #222222;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Q: </span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #222222;">Don’t Satanist drink blood to mock God? </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: red;">Exactly!</span><span style="color: #cc0000;"> </span><span style="color: red;">Don't they also desecrate the Eucharist? If it's only a symbol, why bother? They believe in the Real Presence!</span></span><br />
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<b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Q: </span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">If we’re saved by the Eucharist, why did Jesus die on the cross? <span style="color: #cc0000;">It's one in the same. Jesus transformed the Passover meal into the Eucharistic meal by extending the Last Supper until he drank the 4th Cup of wine on the cross. He inserted his sacrifice into the meal as the unblemished male lamb with no broken bones. The Israelites were saved from slavery by the blood of the lamb (and <i>had to eat its flesh</i>). In the New Exodus, we are saved from slavery to sin by the blood of the Lamb of God (and we must eat His flesh!).</span></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Q: </span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Didn’t Jesus make that atonement for our soul on the cross? <span style="color: #cc0000;">For our sins, yes.</span></span></div>
<div style="color: #222222;">
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span>Another one of their responses could be -- “That’s the Old Testament. We’re not under the Law.” <span style="color: #cc0000;">Yes, Jesus fulfilled it (Mt 5:17; Rom 7:6).</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">READ -- Acts 15:19-20 - “and from blood” not “things strangles and from <i><u>their</u></i> blood”</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">READ -- Acts 15:28-29 - “and from blood” not “meats offered to idols and from <i><u>their</u></i> blood”</span></span><br />
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<span style="color: #cc0000;">So do you follow these dietary restrictions then? </span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span style="color: #cc0000;">This Apostolic decree was a temporary discipline (not doctrine) to facilitate unity among Jews and Gentiles in the early Church. The binding force of its food restrictions was relaxed once the ethnic circumstances that made them necessary passed away. What does this have to do with the Eucharist?</span></span></div>
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<div style="margin-bottom: 6pt;">
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">Also, lets go to 1Pet 1:18-19 and see what their first pope had to say said.</span></span></div>
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<div style="color: #222222; margin-bottom: 6pt;">
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">READ -- 1Pet 1:18-19 <span style="color: #cc0000;">See above about the New Exodus, the Lamb of God, etc.</span></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 6pt;">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #222222;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Jesus did that on the cross, not in the Eucharist. If it’s the Eucharist, why did he go to the cross. </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #444444;">You can’t have it both ways.</span> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: red;">In heaven, Jesus perpetually offers Himself as the Paschal victim (see Rev. 5:6). Heaven is outside of time, so the Mass is God's way of making present to us (inside of time) th</span><span style="color: red;">e New Exodus (i.e., one true sacrifice on the cross). This is exactly what the Israelites believed about the old Passover meal: it made present the Old Exodus (i.e., the original Passover when they escaped slavery in Egypt). See Exodus 13:8.</span></div>
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: red;">[Citation: Ignatius Study Bible] </span><br />
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: red;"><br /></span>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: red;">[UPDATE: Part II is now posted <a href="http://domesticchurchmilitant.blogspot.com/2014/06/eucharist-or-communion-debate-part-2.html">here</a>.]</span><br />
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Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7668712860846217013.post-29811548653298875582014-06-22T12:24:00.000-06:002014-06-24T15:09:33.023-06:00Are you seeing it?The Solemnity of the Most Holy Body and Blood of Christ (Corpus Christi) marks the beginning of another set of celebrations in the DCM. The 24th is the Nativity of John the Baptist, the 27th is the Sacred Heart of Jesus, and the 29th is Sts. Peter and Paul. Out of 17 solemnities (the highest form of celebration in the Church) in the Liturgical calendar, 4 of them come in these next eight days of late June. It's good to be Catholic! <br />
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In honor of this solemn feast, I wanted to share another great new video by Chris Stefanick at <a href="http://RealLifeCatholic.com/">RealLifeCatholic.com</a>.<br />
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"For the past two thousand years, since the birth of the Church, Catholics have risked their lives, just to be at Mass. Beautiful ornate cathedrals have been built, because of what happens inside those cathedrals at Mass. And I just joined the pope and tens of thousands of Catholics in procession behind the Eucharist, because of what happens at Mass. What do all these people see at Mass? If you're not seeing it, you're missing something pretty amazing." ~Chris Stefanick</blockquote>
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<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="284" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/1fvX_LTK7Bk?rel=0" width="504"></iframe>Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7668712860846217013.post-1373739868475282832014-06-14T21:00:00.004-06:002014-06-24T15:09:46.846-06:00Happy Father's Day<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="284" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/bt1cXw3Gf2A?rel=0" width="504"></iframe>Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7668712860846217013.post-16387076307706903142014-05-11T15:09:00.002-06:002014-05-11T15:10:57.526-06:00The Third Way<i>"There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be."</i> <br />
~Venerable Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen<br />
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Are all practicing Catholics "enemies of the human race" (as a majority United States Supreme Court opinion has declared them to be)? Does that mean Mother Teresa was an "enemy of the human race"? <br />
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What does the Catholic Church and the Bible actually teach about homosexuality? Does the Church "discriminate against gays"? What would Jesus do?<br />
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The following documentary was recently released, and it must be watched often and spread far and wide. In only 38 minutes it presents a critical and beautiful message of love. It goes a long way in clearing up some confusion about Christian teaching on homosexuality and answering the questions above.<br />
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<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="214" mozallowfullscreen="" src="//player.vimeo.com/video/93079367?color=5c7132" webkitallowfullscreen="" width="500"></iframe> <br />
<a href="http://vimeo.com/93079367">The Third Way</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/blackstonefilms">Blackstone Films</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com/">Vimeo</a>.Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7668712860846217013.post-48959810623776806892014-04-27T20:24:00.000-06:002014-07-10T21:45:06.600-06:00So surreal: SAINT JP2!<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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Less than 4 years ago we named our first born after Pope John Paul II, the man whose life and writings had much to do with our "reversions" back to a life in Christ and His Church. Living in Denver, we certainly experienced (and continue to experience) the many graces left in the wake of his visit here in 1993. Also, JP2's teachings on the "Theology of the Body" gave us a deeply rooted view of the human person, powerfully revealing for us who we are and our true purpose. In short, God used Pope John Paul II and his writings to change our lives.<br />
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In naming our son after Pope John Paul II, we had high hopes that he would be declared a Saint someday. But we had no idea it would be this soon! Praise God!<br />
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Today we had much to celebrate! After brunch with friends this morning, we had another Easter egg hunt for the Second Sunday of Easter. We watched EWTN's replay of the Canonization Mass in Rome before praying a <a href="http://www.catholicity.com/prayer/divinemercy.html" target="_blank">Divine Mercy Chaplet</a> and eating our traditional "Divine Mercy Sundaes" to celebrate Divine Mercy Sunday. (Not to mention watching the Blackhawks wrap up their first-round playoff series!)<br />
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<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: small;">Kolbe has his game face on.</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: small;">Candy!</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjS4S1jRJKf7M3vJkx2EOEXBsE4kkHkfNHQaFKyyGv2PcO81RJpUOoXR-kmjpVkw2Tkw84r8i_LZO0aP5npeV2vlS9MC8xJN9en1_o8Fs-sUIxdnjiiQKSG736NO9JPBL-XQNVtAN9DuS5W/s1600/IMG_20140427_185915088.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjS4S1jRJKf7M3vJkx2EOEXBsE4kkHkfNHQaFKyyGv2PcO81RJpUOoXR-kmjpVkw2Tkw84r8i_LZO0aP5npeV2vlS9MC8xJN9en1_o8Fs-sUIxdnjiiQKSG736NO9JPBL-XQNVtAN9DuS5W/s1600/IMG_20140427_185915088.jpg" height="400" width="225" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: small;">Venerating our second-class JP2 <a href="http://www.catholic.com/tracts/relics" target="_blank">relic</a> (a piece of the cap he wore on <a href="http://saltandlighttv.org/blog/general/jp-ii-we-love-you-pope-john-paul-ii-nearly-killed-by-gunman" target="_blank">this day</a>) and celebrating with "Divine Mercy Sundaes" on a very special Divine Mercy Sunday.</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: small;">Never met a dessert he didn't like.</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: small;">When your patron gets Canonized, a present seems fitting.</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgB_rd03eMGQbLJovmQJF-alD0E2xhP6HMocAvvhUB0pHopKkR5Y4wqnZzud40zjx-ciy3CEW_iVzgjdc6KIdnXhFrjBdooyDakttt_9TJzdQ7jBhUrO-HZT1FCKR2BfcycXtbDCmQjcxtL/s1600/IMG_20140427_191301297.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgB_rd03eMGQbLJovmQJF-alD0E2xhP6HMocAvvhUB0pHopKkR5Y4wqnZzud40zjx-ciy3CEW_iVzgjdc6KIdnXhFrjBdooyDakttt_9TJzdQ7jBhUrO-HZT1FCKR2BfcycXtbDCmQjcxtL/s1600/IMG_20140427_191301297.jpg" height="180" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: small;">A video: John Paul II - Be Not Afraid!</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhHzNXz9Wz3kHAoBsOLP-hYNmUuaik7_zFbpc7mPiifafohV33lLkCdVCb8m0Xsg_TPUh8K4LXIdp0E_1Fw488eJ29L_NI0E71mhIBQKsNos9vkh2RobcDir25zPNPXV9nlLy8TIS6K3oLt/s1600/IMG_20140418_184501027.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhHzNXz9Wz3kHAoBsOLP-hYNmUuaik7_zFbpc7mPiifafohV33lLkCdVCb8m0Xsg_TPUh8K4LXIdp0E_1Fw488eJ29L_NI0E71mhIBQKsNos9vkh2RobcDir25zPNPXV9nlLy8TIS6K3oLt/s1600/IMG_20140418_184501027.jpg" height="320" width="180" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: small;">Hot off the press! Not for a long time have I anticipated a book release like I did for <a href="http://jp2book.com/" target="_blank">this one</a>!</span></td></tr>
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Here are a couple of great videos for the occasion:<br />
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<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/AoS0eKC-XoQ?rel=0" width="560"></iframe><br />
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<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/4_n6dCIfkFg?rel=0" width="560"></iframe>Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7668712860846217013.post-83354886122085086432014-04-21T20:45:00.003-06:002014-04-21T21:21:03.773-06:00The Tomb is Empty!Pictures from our Lent and Easter (so far) in the DCM...<br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhdXgY5Pl3R2UrE1NrJZRd-meku8Oe7nDKHdLPVjzpU4WTOXOc7xA8u7EFaMwzwPQ031EBRgGnhMIyOG5Po2zKco4YH6zYlqXpPGog89s-X-AdQBrXmzDtAACyiSu7mxyt0wkJoz7L04bXG/s1600/DSC03035.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhdXgY5Pl3R2UrE1NrJZRd-meku8Oe7nDKHdLPVjzpU4WTOXOc7xA8u7EFaMwzwPQ031EBRgGnhMIyOG5Po2zKco4YH6zYlqXpPGog89s-X-AdQBrXmzDtAACyiSu7mxyt0wkJoz7L04bXG/s1600/DSC03035.JPG" height="240" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">We mark the days of our Lenten journey.</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg_89cnFTRkSkghPYAbq8N8vP3gpsOi_xLc5pYxyKVLZ9JSHNkXSSiyLqcp_GzTFOlVTf8Bb9HPcFCsHRf-TJhGr7xfad3bKJvYYQDW-J5BO7iGYN20bt8ePT5YCVjOo6arVx7amLZj2bsn/s1600/IMG_20140418_184925922.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg_89cnFTRkSkghPYAbq8N8vP3gpsOi_xLc5pYxyKVLZ9JSHNkXSSiyLqcp_GzTFOlVTf8Bb9HPcFCsHRf-TJhGr7xfad3bKJvYYQDW-J5BO7iGYN20bt8ePT5YCVjOo6arVx7amLZj2bsn/s1600/IMG_20140418_184925922.jpg" height="320" width="180" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">For every sacrifice he made during Lent, John Paul removed a thorn from Jesus' crown.</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjNiqanKx-05xVqA_1nfoLcuTiPpujqVtDMfDGnTg-6VOuzkgf4LrGzMmaXg7l_P7XZvyl_9dGxF-upTIiRrmKuK1fdGaeXdvIMtEngUDZ8If554_hwp1QbnMc7yjrTPpN1bF9IqfMaQGW5/s1600/DSC02973.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjNiqanKx-05xVqA_1nfoLcuTiPpujqVtDMfDGnTg-6VOuzkgf4LrGzMmaXg7l_P7XZvyl_9dGxF-upTIiRrmKuK1fdGaeXdvIMtEngUDZ8If554_hwp1QbnMc7yjrTPpN1bF9IqfMaQGW5/s1600/DSC02973.JPG" height="240" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">GOOD FRIDAY: Soldiers nail Jesus to the cross.</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiDZV1nXE-qxR2m5VlIoYyYWEmAcnL5J9q0MRyspMTEYfo3vCSdctwjR8NdIy-T3qNedftl-Ozr0lr3sRDq8_H9Lvylc46XxE_3aoBBbfHLlmHkx_d-DKqsbur01lQgwJ9z-4DDcIenzv6F/s1600/DSC02974.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiDZV1nXE-qxR2m5VlIoYyYWEmAcnL5J9q0MRyspMTEYfo3vCSdctwjR8NdIy-T3qNedftl-Ozr0lr3sRDq8_H9Lvylc46XxE_3aoBBbfHLlmHkx_d-DKqsbur01lQgwJ9z-4DDcIenzv6F/s1600/DSC02974.JPG" height="320" width="240" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Mourning at the foot of the cross with the Blessed Mother, before attending a Passion Play.</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgfotCCOEgaEq_F8BJesjtoATXQPax9QqL3FlewzxMn-BH4b5EQpnUpyyr8l_voxa1EsDU2u-3PrBMdQbJNYJEf9PdOVmN1VuBYPUvI0cNE7JsycyYPWXFibnFKnVxvjNGl4U81eDqOsRbj/s1600/DSC02987.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgfotCCOEgaEq_F8BJesjtoATXQPax9QqL3FlewzxMn-BH4b5EQpnUpyyr8l_voxa1EsDU2u-3PrBMdQbJNYJEf9PdOVmN1VuBYPUvI0cNE7JsycyYPWXFibnFKnVxvjNGl4U81eDqOsRbj/s1600/DSC02987.JPG" height="240" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">We removed Jesus from the cross and each took turns embalming his body with perfume.</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgg2-LhFQbn0tBDmfgSj3W5RB86Qzd3qLnsuAbLZzH-zF_DnacUox4Kg76lM9_Z40y8PmoJ7GyBgCyiN5ZRJxl9iebFGx0nSf3RZ6za56yHc6vAsywKKWwVZ4SOVlwIwjs6T2E7eSfSBFgg/s1600/DSC02993.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgg2-LhFQbn0tBDmfgSj3W5RB86Qzd3qLnsuAbLZzH-zF_DnacUox4Kg76lM9_Z40y8PmoJ7GyBgCyiN5ZRJxl9iebFGx0nSf3RZ6za56yHc6vAsywKKWwVZ4SOVlwIwjs6T2E7eSfSBFgg/s1600/DSC02993.JPG" height="240" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">We wrapped his body and laid it in the tomb.</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjBAjxR6Ti-u_cIQrw0d1-zzkXEV7uemTj5KIWj0Zh8dnfl-sVdyFNPi3f6BRPSugEyzBL1VtKU3am5gcNFRiLxspxi4RHznv3qAX3zutyVuJSdQjseiK09Hm35wDPxd5PhnIfJ66XSf3LW/s1600/IMG_20140418_192847080.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjBAjxR6Ti-u_cIQrw0d1-zzkXEV7uemTj5KIWj0Zh8dnfl-sVdyFNPi3f6BRPSugEyzBL1VtKU3am5gcNFRiLxspxi4RHznv3qAX3zutyVuJSdQjseiK09Hm35wDPxd5PhnIfJ66XSf3LW/s1600/IMG_20140418_192847080.jpg" height="180" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Placing soldiers to stand guard at the tomb.</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgSiasFYqGCBYIODntd9ka6wmKF-i9zNLCvHjuW7FjruhK4NASqsP5mYm9j-zoP_kNgmaSQrj9qo5pz5_gmTFzarnJrOgh8ZOMeCCUcEytkRQotGf05Xht0bCRga_uTWEQUHyLuKF10DP4H/s1600/DSC02999.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgSiasFYqGCBYIODntd9ka6wmKF-i9zNLCvHjuW7FjruhK4NASqsP5mYm9j-zoP_kNgmaSQrj9qo5pz5_gmTFzarnJrOgh8ZOMeCCUcEytkRQotGf05Xht0bCRga_uTWEQUHyLuKF10DP4H/s1600/DSC02999.JPG" height="240" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">HOLY SATURDAY: We console a mourning Blessed Mother, veiled in black.</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjg7feAZ3F2BhUhQrg7B9RQi0QryLUUGmrBcozQTGnb8Z4QghnGLtAW7QNvM-pPfhFhh5CorBXNe7TN6ltm3KN1iGW1Q4C4QVKQ2WHA5GAcPV9rncIi5pjqNUhNsgJjXFWsL8FBrtOpY1_i/s1600/DSC03005.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjg7feAZ3F2BhUhQrg7B9RQi0QryLUUGmrBcozQTGnb8Z4QghnGLtAW7QNvM-pPfhFhh5CorBXNe7TN6ltm3KN1iGW1Q4C4QVKQ2WHA5GAcPV9rncIi5pjqNUhNsgJjXFWsL8FBrtOpY1_i/s1600/DSC03005.JPG" height="240" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">EASTER SUNDAY morning: They rush to the tomb.</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgv8RdWExtrzyuIq4gv9k_2nav3GLqZzEW_IYxlC_2-50IWI8DdpaQxdJ4tDtCQABS-T418wm_n7MCGFNf2mjDbUQQV1g5ZGKIsQYJigtD2svd2zyFyWDz7DOiLxDiNdZnYxY3E1DLSn5Co/s1600/DSC03003.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgv8RdWExtrzyuIq4gv9k_2nav3GLqZzEW_IYxlC_2-50IWI8DdpaQxdJ4tDtCQABS-T418wm_n7MCGFNf2mjDbUQQV1g5ZGKIsQYJigtD2svd2zyFyWDz7DOiLxDiNdZnYxY3E1DLSn5Co/s1600/DSC03003.JPG" height="240" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">This is what they discover.</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiSpvfPK0yFs3sPQyP2QQ3vaO54TejsBmQVWVye-UFmOA6Q3_PANEN5IGBmrYCOr7KLTpDJ4EJjdpRdFbBohdCMkM4Mm-T_rx4BpXzI7cJ1h985XZ0a58lytUaH2T7elEGAO-B6DA9ywq7I/s1600/DSC03007.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiSpvfPK0yFs3sPQyP2QQ3vaO54TejsBmQVWVye-UFmOA6Q3_PANEN5IGBmrYCOr7KLTpDJ4EJjdpRdFbBohdCMkM4Mm-T_rx4BpXzI7cJ1h985XZ0a58lytUaH2T7elEGAO-B6DA9ywq7I/s1600/DSC03007.JPG" height="320" width="240" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Opening the burial cloth.</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg_GhzpmOH5bjQlpNqenQlB_p5N5xdfg0_9rFxPapkPFjcGHCFK1pj2QgIRnc-ma1H5mPdYWfzscQYRJ0eQgIXGE_6rXkBLv3gK4B2vaFZLVzucErWL3AU4GEWxyKP1p0etUfe5Mc3bqxRX/s1600/DSC03009.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg_GhzpmOH5bjQlpNqenQlB_p5N5xdfg0_9rFxPapkPFjcGHCFK1pj2QgIRnc-ma1H5mPdYWfzscQYRJ0eQgIXGE_6rXkBLv3gK4B2vaFZLVzucErWL3AU4GEWxyKP1p0etUfe5Mc3bqxRX/s1600/DSC03009.JPG" height="240" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">It's empty! Where's Jesus?!</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjV8j2__e2Aj0mPIoYZilz3fSjxOpjFTlyQWheGBzj26nuMWGQz2v9CD8G-w_IqDJ3WJKDoCdF_ZK4ECgeF_0-XFfOi4l_p25VYthsaKR5xSvavgon_0vlDM5xM59lbZC4ZM5-DOS0hy6vf/s1600/DSC03012.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjV8j2__e2Aj0mPIoYZilz3fSjxOpjFTlyQWheGBzj26nuMWGQz2v9CD8G-w_IqDJ3WJKDoCdF_ZK4ECgeF_0-XFfOi4l_p25VYthsaKR5xSvavgon_0vlDM5xM59lbZC4ZM5-DOS0hy6vf/s1600/DSC03012.JPG" height="240" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">He is risen (above the microwave)!</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhSo-w2WTMsdO3BP53N8ssDGaJShiLoeCMgMMsqbDa7Vig0jPAiVsobgyiJ0_-xBOfg7hdhRqJT3uwtJpOaYNGvR1qlOPpuZp7gXdMwM4ojAp5OMjJGLJACJOCE2eDQzacn-cGUVRP3-aGQ/s1600/DSC03013.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhSo-w2WTMsdO3BP53N8ssDGaJShiLoeCMgMMsqbDa7Vig0jPAiVsobgyiJ0_-xBOfg7hdhRqJT3uwtJpOaYNGvR1qlOPpuZp7gXdMwM4ojAp5OMjJGLJACJOCE2eDQzacn-cGUVRP3-aGQ/s1600/DSC03013.JPG" height="240" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">We have hope (even Cubs fans)!</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiTm_iG2sdHY5Qy_FSzvHdzTYRS72vfz6mRBmUgEKVC86-AmnNRn2FsEdJzUBmmtsfnHWz97Y8xbLGpMk0IxVYEHYtVMDcNWJTMdzt6aZr1Jwcs0TLw97Zrti2lRi26HL3cOAM-YLl4bAy2/s1600/DSC03015.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiTm_iG2sdHY5Qy_FSzvHdzTYRS72vfz6mRBmUgEKVC86-AmnNRn2FsEdJzUBmmtsfnHWz97Y8xbLGpMk0IxVYEHYtVMDcNWJTMdzt6aZr1Jwcs0TLw97Zrti2lRi26HL3cOAM-YLl4bAy2/s1600/DSC03015.JPG" height="240" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Presents!</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEirP2WKoRxnf9_OvzRSd8ENmgujDWnkhuaopt-z7X_k10Mbuso_9j0AWe9iKp0AUnS8HIkzSKtHBrSMPTcBzmlVXGj7yCG55Q0-N18PXhTlCwMajnMfDaBRy1C2HqfWSz0w4epvfRRpdAy4/s1600/DSC03001.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEirP2WKoRxnf9_OvzRSd8ENmgujDWnkhuaopt-z7X_k10Mbuso_9j0AWe9iKp0AUnS8HIkzSKtHBrSMPTcBzmlVXGj7yCG55Q0-N18PXhTlCwMajnMfDaBRy1C2HqfWSz0w4epvfRRpdAy4/s1600/DSC03001.JPG" height="320" width="240" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">The crown of thorns has become the crown of victory. All the purple in the house is replaced with white. Icons of <a href="http://www.monasteryicons.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?action=DETAIL&item=453&EXPANDED=1" target="_blank">the Resurrection</a> and <a href="http://www.monasteryicons.com/monasteryicons/Item_St-Mary-Magdalene_728_ps_srm.html" target="_blank">St. Mary Magdalene</a> hang on the wall.</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi0EFjYCSXFGsWyG3LA0wSgRG5oABwYah3ktm64DfmEXBx-GX5MuZBReqEZAb-_FqnxtLUccmKDgqW5wQpSeLCRdnK4ToH7V6BFypwgSzE-uPrB8RGgnb5-GhxgVC3hxiG3ZiWoNcWOsbsH/s1600/IMG_20140420_110143845.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi0EFjYCSXFGsWyG3LA0wSgRG5oABwYah3ktm64DfmEXBx-GX5MuZBReqEZAb-_FqnxtLUccmKDgqW5wQpSeLCRdnK4ToH7V6BFypwgSzE-uPrB8RGgnb5-GhxgVC3hxiG3ZiWoNcWOsbsH/s1600/IMG_20140420_110143845.jpg" height="320" width="180" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Best Sunday Bests</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEimV_nwtfORXB7b33itGAe1tHfbZ-NOTvLTBNZKJGtiU__mkA5KO3m75_nJbg86N6JEv4y0y5oKRFatLW8fbV1AkfUQiPsbYdE7IlXJBnNiH7dtltGwUR9lnhHpaU88xqAChItjuWTTl4fg/s1600/DSC03017.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEimV_nwtfORXB7b33itGAe1tHfbZ-NOTvLTBNZKJGtiU__mkA5KO3m75_nJbg86N6JEv4y0y5oKRFatLW8fbV1AkfUQiPsbYdE7IlXJBnNiH7dtltGwUR9lnhHpaU88xqAChItjuWTTl4fg/s1600/DSC03017.JPG" height="240" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Five of us.</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiHhKhcaBY-WJ5ghvUrZ5D-i1wq1NG3xFU_CB7Mxwl7cX-kGM457JeyvmRCDYT7jaZ1orsJqpSYv2n9smqbrV4sshwa_2bMnlPAHIz4pPzVGRINbfhbUxUdCmuS9kkZYVis3suTzIfgtyqR/s1600/DSC03028.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiHhKhcaBY-WJ5ghvUrZ5D-i1wq1NG3xFU_CB7Mxwl7cX-kGM457JeyvmRCDYT7jaZ1orsJqpSYv2n9smqbrV4sshwa_2bMnlPAHIz4pPzVGRINbfhbUxUdCmuS9kkZYVis3suTzIfgtyqR/s1600/DSC03028.JPG" height="240" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">The Easter Egg tradition comes from <a href="http://thegoodheart.blogspot.com/2010/07/mary-magdalene-and-red-egg.html" target="_blank">St. Mary Magdalene</a>.</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjtk_lwGI3oSKWTWvReD1thQOoAC2XHzgOvxgWGBUsdpFG99sMGzjDtE4qt8KFVCdqvh3RMVHzhsdbsx3Zd__Y4RXgfuIKSt1bFXbWCPTu3k4JZewIbEIJ8gqUddNZVKa6ZY77ZmtPWx7It/s1600/DSC03030.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjtk_lwGI3oSKWTWvReD1thQOoAC2XHzgOvxgWGBUsdpFG99sMGzjDtE4qt8KFVCdqvh3RMVHzhsdbsx3Zd__Y4RXgfuIKSt1bFXbWCPTu3k4JZewIbEIJ8gqUddNZVKa6ZY77ZmtPWx7It/s1600/DSC03030.JPG" height="240" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Papa made him work for it.</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhr_60W1sudhJgk538USQoAU7wYNN_Kc2le2T_Qo8slc6tS8w5n_RIsBVaEi_-4zKsmpm4CySd-eykVvP86yzlA00QMgZCB2n0jyFmIXdGc4ZbF2M1CgmRyG3vrnjBclK-7uikKo_XtzK-z/s1600/DSC03034.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhr_60W1sudhJgk538USQoAU7wYNN_Kc2le2T_Qo8slc6tS8w5n_RIsBVaEi_-4zKsmpm4CySd-eykVvP86yzlA00QMgZCB2n0jyFmIXdGc4ZbF2M1CgmRyG3vrnjBclK-7uikKo_XtzK-z/s1600/DSC03034.JPG" height="320" width="240" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">The big hunt will be followed by 6 smaller hunts at our house, every Sunday during the season of Easter.</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhdOvSAUq2QTv5e2C2SXeAjdbyLZD07BJxNie7yz3GT4JJLJkDUs4q2pFNRFSFTC-6V5jsk9BMIY9A6cu8ImF9xh8PqDtgv3ZlQKeqIPCeZnVDwVJBVBq1EZyMddVFdw1KM5qrjmlaOX6bW/s1600/IMG_20140420_181016625.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhdOvSAUq2QTv5e2C2SXeAjdbyLZD07BJxNie7yz3GT4JJLJkDUs4q2pFNRFSFTC-6V5jsk9BMIY9A6cu8ImF9xh8PqDtgv3ZlQKeqIPCeZnVDwVJBVBq1EZyMddVFdw1KM5qrjmlaOX6bW/s1600/IMG_20140420_181016625.jpg" height="320" width="180" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">CHAMP: Out of 25 people, Kolbe won the egg-cracking contest!</span></td></tr>
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj82JvX2SeAWY8NC74f1GLBW04sBH_iXIwqE729WnBhv_Tg26QaUOkNH89q5-AeddfXJVJQ5BVuHCoAXSGCkL5tC3BF9laTe-J6O5L-st8U1fjwbYWPPglKxF1IhK-0AgLhOVO6axzhbw-F/s1600/DSC03036.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj82JvX2SeAWY8NC74f1GLBW04sBH_iXIwqE729WnBhv_Tg26QaUOkNH89q5-AeddfXJVJQ5BVuHCoAXSGCkL5tC3BF9laTe-J6O5L-st8U1fjwbYWPPglKxF1IhK-0AgLhOVO6axzhbw-F/s1600/DSC03036.JPG" height="240" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Today we celebrated Kolbe's re-birthday (Baptism Day).</span></td></tr>
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<br />Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16415551836101172019noreply@blogger.com0